Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI??? (Read 9899 times)

monster796

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2013, 12:14:14 AM »
You folks are awesome! Thank you for all of the input. Well I think for my situation, building the AR Pistol without the gas tube would be great seeing as how once I leave Hawaii for Arizona, Ill want a normal AR Pistol without the hideous damage from welding a mag to the lower receiver but then I would have to use a 10 Round mag and then if I did then it could possibly open the gate for prohibiting the higher cap mags here as they could then be used with a pistol, Right? Okay then I was wondering about the whole purchasing a 7 inch pistol barrel and buffer tube problem with the ATF… I already own an AR15 so if I were to start to build the Pistol do you guys think that would be a problem. I mean I would never break their rules of putting my pistol upper on my AR Rifle lower but that problem still exists. What do you folks suggest I do for that? I am going to write a letter to the ATF soon IRT that. As far as Hawaii goes, is there anything forbidding me from possessing an AR pistol buffer tube and barrel (just the plane Jane naked barrel)? Oh shoot, I almost forgot, would operating the pistol without the gas tube while I’m here damage anything or present any danger to myself or the pistol? Thank you so much folks for all of your input!

suka

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2013, 03:23:45 AM »
I assume you mean "constructive intent" of an SBR. I'm sure no one will break down your front door for owning a pistol barrel.
Get your pistol receiver first if your really  paranoid.

Plug the port on the front post or gas will blow straight into your face.
Operating the AR without the return gas is actually cleaner and creates less stress on the upper.

suka

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2013, 09:25:52 AM »
Letters to the BATF tech branch takes about 2-4 months for a reply.
Most info can be found at ARFcom.

2aHawaii

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3629
  • Total likes: 61
  • Sheepdog
  • Referrals: 16
    • View Profile
    • 2aHawaii
Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2013, 08:25:16 AM »
...Ill want a normal AR Pistol without the hideous damage from welding a mag to the lower receiver but then I would have to use a 10 Round mag and then if I did then it could possibly open the gate for prohibiting the higher cap mags here as they could then be used with a pistol, Right?

You're probably going to need to weld the magazine. Check out the "assault pistol" restrictions. Specifically about a magazine inserted not in the pistol grip and weight restrictions. There are others too, but you're only allowed to have one of those "features" without being considered an assault pistol.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

Buying from Amazon? Click through here

Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2013, 09:01:53 AM »
You're probably going to need to weld the magazine. Check out the "assault pistol" restrictions. Specifically about a magazine inserted not in the pistol grip and weight restrictions. There are others too, but you're only allowed to have one of those "features" without being considered an assault pistol.

According to the HRS definition:

Quote
"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol which accepts a detachable magazine and which has two or more of the following characteristics:

Therefore, if you disengage the gas tube, the pistol is no longer considered semiautomatic.  As such, it cannot fall into the category of assault pistol regardless of the number of definable characteristics.

Quote
"Semiautomatic" means the mode of operation by which a firearm uses the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to extract a fired cartridge and chamber a fresh cartridge with each single pull of a trigger.
"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

suka

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2013, 09:03:05 AM »
If its a C&R , has a sixteen inch barrel, does not accept a "detachable magazine" , or not of a semiautomatic action.
Then none of the sub clauses apply ie: 50oz, mag outside grip, threaded barrel, barrel shroud ,

2aHawaii

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3629
  • Total likes: 61
  • Sheepdog
  • Referrals: 16
    • View Profile
    • 2aHawaii
Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2013, 09:30:58 AM »
Therefore, if you disengage the gas tube, the pistol is no longer considered semiautomatic.  As such, it cannot fall into the category of assault pistol regardless of the number of definable characteristics.

Ah, very good. Good catch.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

Buying from Amazon? Click through here

monster796

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2013, 07:15:57 PM »
Okay folks, I am serious about building this little guy but I have one problem. I will just leave the gas tube out when I build it and call it a day but what about the fact that I own an ar15 and it might have 30 round mags.... I won't violate Hawaii's precious law by putting the 30 round mag in the pistol but how do I keep this legal.... I'm not foreseeing any people comming into my house but I don't want to be doing this the wrong way. How should I do this? Thanks folks.

bass monkey

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2013, 07:21:43 PM »
Okay folks, I am serious about building this little guy but I have one problem. I will just leave the gas tube out when I build it and call it a day but what about the fact that I own an ar15 and it might have 30 round mags.... I won't violate Hawaii's precious law by putting the 30 round mag in the pistol but how do I keep this legal.... I'm not foreseeing any people comming into my house but I don't want to be doing this the wrong way. How should I do this? Thanks folks.

Not have 30 round mags?
There's many interpretations about the law, or enforcement of it(30 round mags). That's probably also the reason some shops won't sell 30 round mags to non law enforcement.

Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2013, 07:38:33 PM »
Okay folks, I am serious about building this little guy but I have one problem. I will just leave the gas tube out when I build it and call it a day but what about the fact that I own an ar15 and it might have 30 round mags.... I won't violate Hawaii's precious law by putting the 30 round mag in the pistol but how do I keep this legal.... I'm not foreseeing any people coming into my house but I don't want to be doing this the wrong way. How should I do this? Thanks folks.

This falls into that "grey area" where we have a law written based on whether a pistol that can take rifle mags can be legally acquired in the state. 

I believe you can modify the pistol mag well to only accept modified mags.  That prevents regular AR mags holding > 10rds from being inserted.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 10:25:51 PM by Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra »
"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

dogman

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2013, 10:02:14 PM »
From the HRA website;
Hawaii state law prohibits greater than 10 round detachable pistol magazines (including rifle magazines capable of use in any pistol, such as the AR-15/M16, AK, M1 carbine, H&K carbine, Thompson, and aftermarket Ruger .22 magazines) unless blocked to hold 10 rounds or less and “not readily restorable”. Possession of illegal magazines is a misdemeanor, and possession of a handgun with one inserted is a class C felony. There is much debate among gun owners, law enforcement, and dealers over the interpretation of this portion of the statutes when rifle magazines which fit handguns are considered, and the prohibition is not generally enforced.

 If we start building legal AR pistols with detachable magazines would that give a reason to start enforcing this law?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 10:14:09 PM by dogman »

monster796

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2013, 01:20:40 AM »
Well according to the HRS as long as a 30 round mag is capped to ten rounds and "not capable of being readily restored"
One is good to go... So if someone decided to build an ar pistol and owned an ar with mags more then 10 rnds then maybe they should cap their mags to be safe or folks here that own 30 round ar mags can protest along with the shops that sell them and have the law reversed... This is what I'm figuring but hey I'm no lawyer :)
I'll keep up the good fight but I can't wait to leave this unconstitutional land.
     (c)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited.  This subsection shall not apply to magazines originally designed to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition which have been modified to accept no more than ten rounds and which are not capable of being readily restored to a capacity of more than ten rounds.

Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2013, 08:40:42 AM »
Well according to the HRS as long as a 30 round mag is capped to ten rounds and "not capable of being readily restored"
One is good to go... So if someone decided to build an ar pistol and owned an ar with mags more then 10 rnds then maybe they should cap their mags to be safe or folks here that own 30 round ar mags can protest along with the shops that sell them and have the law reversed... This is what I'm figuring but hey I'm no lawyer :)
I'll keep up the good fight but I can't wait to leave this unconstitutional land.
     (c)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited.  This subsection shall not apply to magazines originally designed to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition which have been modified to accept no more than ten rounds and which are not capable of being readily restored to a capacity of more than ten rounds.

This mag issue has been discussed in this forum many, many, many, many times.  The general consensus is:

Be vewy, vewy quiet.  We're hunting wabbit!



"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

monster796

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2014, 11:23:50 PM »
Okay folks, Where can I go to have a magazine welded to a lower? Do you guys think its costly? Is it possible? (I mean some lowers are alum and some are steel)Do you guys think I could get away with doing as little welding as possilble (make it legal/Non detatchable and still be able to unweld when I go to Arizona) Thanks folks!

dogman

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2014, 09:38:22 PM »
Okay folks, Where can I go to have a magazine welded to a lower? Do you guys think its costly? Is it possible? (I mean some lowers are alum and some are steel)Do you guys think I could get away with doing as little welding as possilble (make it legal/Non detatchable and still be able to unweld when I go to Arizona) Thanks folks!

I plan on doing one soon, I'll let you know how it turns out. Yes you could grind the welds off later but with stripped lowers at around a hundred bucks, just change the lower. Do you already have a stripped lower registered as a handgun?

bornloser_182

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2018, 01:38:48 PM »
sorry to bring this thread back but after reading thru a bunch of these ar pistol threads i wanted to see if anyone has welded on a mag to an ar lower and registered it as a pistol. If so are there any laws dictating how many rounds your non-detachable pistol magazine can hold? From what i understand once you have welded on the magazine it will not be classified as an "assault pistol" but i can't find any HRS on non-detachable pistol magazine capacity restrictions. If anyone has welded a mag to an ar lower please let me know how many rounds the fixed mag holds or is legal to hold here? thanks.

London808

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2018, 02:27:36 PM »
sorry to bring this thread back but after reading thru a bunch of these ar pistol threads i wanted to see if anyone has welded on a mag to an ar lower and registered it as a pistol. If so are there any laws dictating how many rounds your non-detachable pistol magazine can hold? From what i understand once you have welded on the magazine it will not be classified as an "assault pistol" but i can't find any HRS on non-detachable pistol magazine capacity restrictions. If anyone has welded a mag to an ar lower please let me know how many rounds the fixed mag holds or is legal to hold here? thanks.

As many as can fit.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Falken Hawke

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2018, 03:27:03 PM »
H.R.S. 134-8(c) applies only to detachable magazines that can be used in a pistol.  Therefore the limits of this Law do not apply to a fixed magazine nor any magazine that cannot be used in a pistol.

WTF?Shane

Re: Are AR15 Pistols Legal in HI???
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2018, 03:29:52 PM »
H.R.S. 134-8(c) applies only to detachable magazines that can be used in a pistol.  Therefore the limits of this Law do not apply to a fixed magazine nor any magazine that cannot be used in a pistol.

 :thumbsup:

But don't get caught loading more than 5 (or 10 on the fun side) at KHSC.