I had this discussion before. Do you think it's necessary to have a license or permit to shoot? Just like a drivers license or permit for those under age. Do you think that everyone shooting should take a safety course just to shoot one? Right now anyone can shoot a gun from a certified gun owner but are they certified to teach safety to someone else? I'm sure there are a lot out there that let others borrow their guns while not being there at the range.

I had this discussion before. Do you think it's necessary to have a license or permit to shoot? Just like a drivers license or permit for those under age. Do you think that everyone shooting should take a safety course just to shoot one? Right now anyone can shoot a gun from a certified gun owner but are they certified to teach safety to someone else? I'm sure there are a lot out there that let others borrow their guns while not being there at the range.

It's legal to loan a long gun to a friend to take shooting or hunting.  It's illegal to loan a handgun to anyone.  The owner must be present to let someone else shoot their handgun.

As a responsible gun owner, you have to trust the individual to be safe with your gun.  If you don't feel that way, ask the person to take a safety class or go practice with him before loaning it. 

I personally don't allow anyone in my house unsupervised access to  my guns unless they have taken a safety course and practiced shooting with me.  I have as much responsibility as the state to ensure public safety where guns registered to me are involved, if not more.

Generally, no training course is required as long as the owner acts responsibly.  This includes basic safety instruction for new shooters.  It doesn't take a certificate to teach basic firearm safety, Demonstrate the same common safety principles you should be practicing yourself at the range.

IMHO, that is!   

So it's legal to let someone borrow a long gun. So if you let someone without a license to borrow you car is that fine? Are you sure they know the proper procedures and safety rules to handle the long gun? If you feel confident that they know their stuff but something happens who is liable? Can they said that you trained him so you are responsible? If he has his own certificate will they say he is liable for himself because he is certified? This is just a discussion and not necessarily my opinion.

I think its ridiculous that you need permission/a permit to exercise one of your rights (in regard to obtaining a firearm).

So it's legal to let someone borrow a long gun. So if you let someone without a license to borrow you car is that fine? Are you sure they know the proper procedures and safety rules to handle the long gun? If you feel confident that they know their stuff but something happens who is liable? Can they said that you trained him so you are responsible? If he has his own certificate will they say he is liable for himself because he is certified? This is just a discussion and not necessarily my opinion.

As long as the person you loan the gun to is legally able to own the gun themselves (not a felon, no history of mental illness, not addicted to drugs, etc.), then you have no legal liability if they use your gun improperly.

Again, it's your judgement.  There are two scenarios:  the borrower has an accident with your gun that injures/kills someone, or the borrower uses the gun to purposefully injure/kill someone.  Which of these two situations do you think can be prevented with a formal, versus owner-taught, safety session?

So it's legal to let someone borrow a long gun. So if you let someone without a license to borrow you car is that fine? Are you sure they know the proper procedures and safety rules to handle the long gun? If you feel confident that they know their stuff but something happens who is liable? Can they said that you trained him so you are responsible? If he has his own certificate will they say he is liable for himself because he is certified? This is just a discussion and not necessarily my opinion.

Your argument is invalid.  First, a license  is required.  To knowingly allow an unlicensed operator to have your vehicle makes the operator illegal and your act negligent.

Second, the fact someone passed a driving test in no way makes them a safer driver than a beginner.  I see people on the street who are obviously 10,20, 30 or more years beyond the "Driver's Ed" age and are the most unsafe operators you'll ever see!

Again, it is YOUR judgement.  Your brother has had 3 DUIs and just got his license reinstated.  Your grandmother is scheduled for cataract surgery in a week.  Your sister hasn't owned a car yet that she hasn't totaled.

All those people have a license.  Is the license the only thing you will base your car-lending decision on?

i guess it comes down to liability. the car example is to show that it's illegal to operate a vehicle without a license. i'm thinking the reason is that it's a dangerous object that could hurt others. I think it's a money scheme like registration but that's just me. so why wouldn't we need a license to operate a gun when we do need one for a car? Why isn't it illegal to operate a gun without a license?

One's a right and the other is a privilege.

One's a right and the other is a privilege.

That's answer #1 (maybe 2 and 3 as well?).

The answer after that is:  a car is more complicated, has more moving parts & controls, and can result in greater injury or loss of life in an accident than a gun.  Unless you are purposefully shooting up a mall, the negligent discharge will usually be limited to one victim (injured or killed).  A pickup truck or SUV can kill a whole bus full of kids in a single accident.  Risk of dying in a vehicle crash is MUCH higher than dying from a gunshot, whether accidental or intentional.

Think about all the traffic laws and rules you have to learn.  Traffic signs you must obey and what they mean, what to do if an emergency vehicle is behind you, how to proceed at a 4-way stop without a signal, when it's legal to pass another car, etc., etc. 

There are a few basic safety rules for guns.  Follow those, and everything else is practice and cleaning!  Driving requires a license because the knowledge and skills needed to be safe necessitate a driver have appropriate training and hands-on experience.  Using a gun is much safer statistically than driving.

There are states which issue CCW licenses that require proficiency testing with the firearm you intend to use.  I'm okay with that.  I don't want someone who never practices drawing down on a bad guy with me in the same room!!!   But, for controlled situations like hunting or target shooting, no license is necessary to be safe.

^ ^ didn't you just join this month? you almost beating my post count  i got to step up my game

Should people take safety classes? - Absolutely

Should people be cerfified to shoot? - Probably, but that's a very slippery slope.  Who makes the rules for what makes people certified?  Very dangerous for something that is a Amendment.

i guess it comes down to liability. the car example is to show that it's illegal to operate a vehicle without a license. i'm thinking the reason is that it's a dangerous object that could hurt others. I think it's a money scheme like registration but that's just me. so why wouldn't we need a license to operate a gun when we do need one for a car? Why isn't it illegal to operate a gun without a license?

Driving is a priveledge, owning/shooting firearms is recognized as a Right in the Second Amendment.

I will counter as to why shouldn't we charge people with a fee to express their opinion?  Also who determines if the opinion should be released?  Finally who certifies that you are able to voice your opinion?  Keep in mind that the Second Amendment isn't just about firearms ownership it's about providing a way to fight back against the Government should it stop working for its people.

Should people take safety classes? - Absolutely

Should people be cerfified to shoot? - Probably, but that's a very slippery slope.  Who makes the rules for what makes people certified?  Very dangerous for something that is a Amendment.

Maybe we should require certifications and public speaking classes before anyone is allowed to voice a political opinion in public?  After all, rights are not absolute.  The state/feds get to add restrictions so bad acts can't be protected under the Constitution. 

That's when we have to ask, WHO gets to decide what a "bad act" is?

I don't think you should be forced to have some type of certification to own and shoot guns.

I do believe that people should train with firearms before buying them.

As stated earlier, once you start asking for certifications, you are asking some organization or the government to step in and control gun ownership.

This is not good.

I always take people shooting and instruct them on safe gun handling procedures before I let them touch loaded firearms.

I know there are a lot of idiots out there that own firearms but there are many more idiots that are having kids.

Should we start licensing that too? Have people get a permit to bear a child?

I don't think you should be forced to have some type of certification to own and shoot guns.

I do believe that people should train with firearms before buying them.

As stated earlier, once you start asking for certifications, you are asking some organization or the government to step in and control gun ownership.

This is not good.

I always take people shooting and instruct them on safe gun handling procedures before I let them touch loaded firearms.

I know there are a lot of idiots out there that own firearms but there are many more idiots that are having kids.

Should we start licensing that too? Have people get a permit to bear a child?

Well said 

Sorry Darmok and Japad @ Tanagra you sound anti

Well said 

Sorry Darmok and Japad @ Tanagra you sound anti

I am ... anti-TROLL

.

Should people take safety classes? - Absolutely

Should people be cerfified to shoot? - Probably, but that's a very slippery slope.  Who makes the rules for what makes people certified?  Very dangerous for something that is a Amendment.

+1, great post!

............Should we start licensing that too? Have people get a permit to bear a child?

A bit off topic, but those chronic welfare peeps with a bazillion kids?............yeah I think they should be required to get a permit.

How many have squeezed the trigger prior to learning how to multiply?  If one needs to be certified to just squeeze the trigger, then the old past time of shooting the old 22 with the relative would be lost. 

IMO, it would be beneficial for the gun owner to know when the prospect is ready to squeeze a trigger and send a round down range, much like how it has been for decades and for some families centuries.