With the exception of one person in particular,I believe all of the RO's are cool and some even friendly. One RO has a chip on his shoulder and that sometimes leads to uncalled for and IMO, unacceptable behavior  under certain circumstances.   I'm all for yelling at people fussing with their stuff at the table during a ceasefire or mishandling a firearm since life and limb are at stake and yelling is arguably the most effective way to convey a sense of importance, alarm and urgency . But yelling at people for violating range rules like placing two bulleye targets in a vertical (as opposed to side by side) configuration or for shooting at the berm instead of the back stop is over the top. The ROs do a lot to keep us all safe. The fact that the range remains open to the public and the absence of any reported major incidents leads me to believe they have and continue to do their job. They are not always perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. If you want an alibi in case you are wrongfully threatened with being ejected from the range, use the video on your smart phone. It's free, can be erased and can be used over and over again and again. Just a thought.

You can't put 2 bullseye targets in a vertical configuration?  Is this for the pistol side, rifle side or both?  I use the 50 yard bullseye targets all the time.  Only other targets I use are the square sight in targets.  I've always put them vertical on my rifle frame.  Even the side by side 50 yard NRA small bore bullseye targets I turn vertical.  No one ever told me anything about it on the rifle side.

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Sounds like the pistol side. Rifle side is no problem.

Pistol side. The rules are listed on the wall and some are posted randomly in multiple areas.

Not enough evidence presented. Will need to see pictures of said daughter.   

But as already mentioned, the registered owner is responsible just like with cars.  The ROs just try to do the best they can and sometimes make mistakes too 

Not enough evidence presented. Will need to see pictures of said daughter.   

But as already mentioned, the registered owner is responsible just like with cars.  The ROs just try to do the best they can and sometimes make mistakes too

So, what you just said is, if my daughter does something that can get her banned from the range, the ban also applies to me??

In addition, how does the RO know who the registered owner of a rifle is?  For all they know, since they never ask, I could have borrowed the rifles, and neither of us is the owner.

You need to remember that they can ban anyone they want to.

Even if they just perceive a danger, or violation of the rules.

The only thing you can do is to make yourself aware of the rules and follow them.

just accept the mistake irregardless of fault, always practice safety first and enjoy shooting...

one time I was on the pistol side and after shooting all my mags the RO comes up and says that if I was shooting in competition I would be disqualified. I'm like "what are you talking about?" He tells me that I had put my hand in front of the muzzle. "what?! can you show me what I did and how I should properly grip the gun so I do not do that again?"
"just don't do it" and he walks away
"ughh ok"

I have had my pistols for some time and I have NEVER put any body part in front of the muzzle while at the range. I had no idea what he was talking about, and he did nothing to correct this "problem" I had

You need to remember that they can ban anyone they want to.

Even if they just perceive a danger, or violation of the rules.

The only thing you can do is to make yourself aware of the rules and follow them.

I'd like to really see how a ban  on someone from a public park works out.  I'm not sure if there are instances where this has been done before in the context of a shooting range.
There seems to be some stuff that would app,y from sex offenders, which thy ban not for punishment but for protection of the public. For this to happen though you would need a hearing, an appeal process etc.

Add to it second amendment issues and all kinds of stuff on 1A it would be interesting.


My experience with some  range masters has been listen to their safety rules, and dismiss their veiled threats and comments. I love the guys in the pistol side the always help me and are decent guys once we got to know each other.

I'd like to really see how a ban  on someone from a public park works out.  I'm not sure if there are instances where this has been done before in the context of a shooting range.
There seems to be some stuff that would app,y from sex offenders, which thy ban not for punishment but for protection of the public. For this to happen though you would need a hearing, an appeal process etc.

Add to it second amendment issues and all kinds of stuff on 1A it would be interesting.


My experience with some  range masters has been listen to their safety rules, and dismiss their veiled threats and comments. I love the guys in the pistol side the always help me and are decent guys once we got to know each other.

There are posted rules.

If you don't follow the rules, you get kicked out. It's not that hard a concept to understand.

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Dar,

I wasn't there when the situation went down, and I can't read minds, so I can only speculate.

Perhaps the R.O. mistakenly assumed that your daughter was an unemancipated minor.

If this was the case, the R.O. probably relied on Haw. Rev. Stat. 577-3, which reads, in pertinent part, "[t]he father and mother of unmarried minor children shall jointly and severally be liable in damages for tortious acts committed by their children," when he made his statement.

You stated that your daughter is not a minor; she is in fact, 27.

So does this mean you are no longer "responsible for everything she does at the range"?

It depends... while you may not be responsible for "everything" your daughter does at the range (she is not an unemancipated minor), you may still be found, "absolutely liable," for damages (personal injury and/or property damage) that arise as a result of her discharging a firearm that you own.

Haw. Rev. Stat. 663-9.5 reads, in pertinent part, "If a firearm discharges and the discharge of the firearm proximately causes either personal injury or property damage to any person, the owner of the firearm shall be absolutely liable for the damage."

Of course, there are affirmative defenses to this absolute liability, but it is good FOR ALL OF US to be aware of the existence of such statutes.

Oh yeah, this isn't legal advice! 

That's good info, NewGuy.  The statute on liability is a TORT statute, which means the owner is held liable for damages or injuries.  It's not a criminal statute. 

I read that as :  if my daughter causes damages or injury with my gun, I have to pay for them financially.  Breaking a range rule does not rise to the level of causing damages or injury especially if nothing bad happened as a result.

You need to remember that they can ban anyone they want to.

Even if they just perceive a danger, or violation of the rules.

The only thing you can do is to make yourself aware of the rules and follow them.

This is all bullshit. Like I said, you can't ban someone from a public park without due process, which means a hearing.
they can't do it just because they want to either. They will have to present evidence of the violations.

I know how mike likes to run his fiefdom; he threatend to "ban" me before, that was quickly squashed by corporate counsel and the Dir. Of Parks and Rec.


Can you get in trouble? Yes. Can you be removed from shooting? Yes.

Can you be banned because you did one thing? Likely no. And, again it would be a Judge banning you not mike.

Here is the bet: find me someone who is "banned" and if we can't get them to retract the so called ban I will buy you a box of ammo up to $50.00

What your also saying KK is that a life guard can ban you from the beach if you don't listen to him, with no proof or hearing. That just doesn't happen lol.

If you want an alibi in case you are wrongfully threatened with being ejected from the range, use the video on your smart phone. It's free, can be erased and can be used over and over again and again. Just a thought.

This makes for interesting 5pm dinner meeting discussions with the Director on 24hr notice lol. 

"My guy wouldn't say that!"

"Oh yeah? #pushplay"

What your also saying KK is that a life guard can ban you from the beach if you don't listen to him, with no proof or hearing. That just doesn't happen lol.

It happens all the time.

I saw two guys drinking on a public beach.

The lifeguard told them to stop.

They didn't listen.

The police came and they were taken away.

It happens.

P.s. this is EXACTLY what I said:

There are posted rules.

If you don't follow the rules, you get kicked out. It's not that hard a concept to understand.

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It happens all the time.

I saw two guys drinking on a public beach.

The lifeguard told them to stop.

They didn't listen.

The police came and they were taken away.

It happens.

They were violating a written law, which is what the police arrest for.  That doesn't mean they can't come back to the beach the next day.  That would be just like me showing up during park closed hours without a permit.  If were shooting then, they could indeed arrest me for trespassing.  That doesn't mean when the park opened I couldn't come back.

If it worked that way, don't you think they would have "Banned" the OWS protestors from Thomas square (a public park)? Think about what you are saying man, you make no sense lol.

1.) a violation of a rule could get you temporarily ejected for the health and safety of the public.
2.) temporarily removing an individual for a safety reason is not the same as the "bans" that I have personally heard threatened at Kokohead.
3.) to ban someone it would require due process
4.) the judge would order the person banned - not the range officer.

They were violating a written law, which is what the police arrest for.  That doesn't mean they can't come back to the beach the next day.

You are wrong bro., just deal with it lol.

You're wrong Einstein.

This is exactly what I said.

There are posted rules.

If you don't follow the rules, you get kicked out. It's not that hard a concept to understand.

It's a fact.

Why don't you walk around the line at Kokohead pointing your loaded gun at everyone and see what happens.

If you don't get kicked out, I'll buy you a box of ammo.

If it worked that way, don't you think they would have "Banned" the OWS protestors from Thomas square (a public park)? Think about what you are saying man, you make no sense lol.

Educate yourself.

They did ban them from the park.

They tried to camp on the park and were banned from doing so.

They set up their tents on the sidewalk outside of the park property.