Would This Be Allowed to Carry Here?

http://jpxpeppergun.net/home.html

I'm looking through the City ordinance but it only mentions "spray". I think the biggest issue is that it uses blanks to propel the OC solution.

Legal or not, I question anyone's judgement who would carry and use in public a nonlethal defense product shaped like a gun.  You're just asking to be shot!

Just my opinion, of course!   

Shot by who?  How would anyone know you are carrying it unless you carry it openly? And if you are at the point where you need to use it does it really matter? Until we have real CCW I'm just looking at the best options to carry some sort of last resort form of defense. I currently carry pepper spray but with Hawaii winds I can see how it could backfire.

The other option I'm looking at is this.

http://www.pepperblaster.com/

Legal or not, I question anyone's judgement who would carry and use in public a nonlethal defense product shaped like a gun.  You're just asking to be shot!

Just my opinion, of course!   

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For what it's worth, I agree. Those products look too much like guns. Legal or not.
I seem to notice a trend of more incidents where police are using deadly force when there is ANY possibility of a firearm threat.
You also have to remember, when the police arrive they do not know who is good or bad.
Imagine this:
You pepper spay a perp and he is rolling around on the ground injured then the cops arrive and you are holding a device that looks like a gun?

So is that the reasoning behind not allowing us CCW here?

Shot by who?  How would anyone know you are carrying it unless you carry it openly? And if you are at the point where you need to use it does it really matter? Until we have real CCW I'm just looking at the best options to carry some sort of last resort form of defense. I currently carry pepper spray but with Hawaii winds I can see how it could backfire.

Simple scenario:  Bad guy menacing you.  You pull pepper spray gun to protect yourself.  Bad guy pulls his (illegally) concealed weapon.  You lose.

So many situations that can result in you being viewed as the threat.  Off duty cop nearby, sheriff driving by, bouncer, rent-a-cop security. 

With 13-year-olds being shot for holding a replica gun, it makes no sense to carry something like that.

So is that the reasoning behind not allowing us CCW here?

You used 2 words that don't belong in the same sentence:

reasoning
CCW

The state has no reasoning for denying CCW.  They set up the system so that you have to present them an overwhelming reason why you should have CCW.

Simple scenario:  Bad guy menacing you.  You pull pepper spray gun to protect yourself.  Bad guy pulls his (illegally) concealed weapon.  You lose.

So many situations that can result in you being viewed as the threat.  Off duty cop nearby, sheriff driving by, bouncer, rent-a-cop security. 

With 13-year-olds being shot for holding a replica gun, it makes no sense to carry something like that.

So is that to assume if I pulled out a regular pepper spray the bad guy would not use the illegal gun against me or my family?

In terms of being viewed as a threat my reason for mentioning CCW is how would that differ if we had CCW? If you carry concealed you don't flaunt what you have. You keep it hidden so you are not viewed as a threat.

There are officers I know that carries their guns off duty does that means if they use it they are at risk of another office shooting them since they are not in uniform?

The state has no reasoning for denying CCW.  They set up the system so that you have to present them an overwhelming reason why you should have CCW.

 

So is that to assume if I pulled out a regular pepper spray the bad guy would not use the illegal gun against me or my family?

In terms of being viewed as a threat my reason for mentioning CCW is how would that differ if we had CCW? If you carry concealed you don't flaunt what you have. You keep it hidden so you are not viewed as a threat.

There are officers I know that carries their guns off duty does that means if they use it they are at risk of another office shooting them since they are not in uniform?

A bad guy can shoot you for any reason, or for no reason.  Pulling out a pepper spray can vs. gun to me is smarter if you are going to use anything.  Pulling the squirt gun out forces the bad guy to react to that, which is a more predictable reaction than seeing a regular spray container.

Be honest.  Do you think you are more or less likely to be shot or stabbed over pulling a can of spray, or a real or replica gun?

And there are instances of CCW "good guys" shooting at or covering a perp, then being mistakenly shot by police.  Having a gun in your hands makes you a target. 

As far as your argument comparing a cop with a real gun to the civilian with a gun:  the cop has a badge and can identify himself to both the potential perp and bystanders (other cops).  CCW gun owners don't usually have badges, unless you buy one of the CCW license wallets with the Concealed Carry badge attached.  I've not heard of that CCW badge being credited with preventing a case of mistaken identity, even though that is its stated purpose.  If he identifies himself, then it's much less likely he'll be shot by another cop.  That isn't a guarantee.  The military is all too aware of how often death by friendly fire occurs.  There's no reason to believe COPs are any less fallible. 

There is no "one size fits all" answer for your questions.  Humans are unpredictable.  You prepare for what is most likely, and then react quickly when things don't go as planned.   Situational awareness... 

A bad guy can shoot you for any reason, or for no reason.  Pulling out a pepper spray can vs. gun to me is smarter if you are going to use anything.  Pulling the squirt gun out forces the bad guy to react to that, which is a more predictable reaction than seeing a regular spray container.

Be honest.  Do you think you are more or less likely to be shot or stabbed over pulling a can of spray, or a real or replica gun?

And there are instances of CCW "good guys" shooting at or covering a perp, then being mistakenly shot by police.  Having a gun in your hands makes you a target. 

As far as your argument comparing a cop with a real gun to the civilian with a gun:  the cop has a badge and can identify himself to both the potential perp and bystanders (other cops).  CCW gun owners don't usually have badges, unless you buy one of the CCW license wallets with the Concealed Carry badge attached.  I've not heard of that CCW badge being credited with preventing a case of mistaken identity, even though that is its stated purpose.  If he identifies himself, then it's much less likely he'll be shot by another cop.  That isn't a guarantee.  The military is all too aware of how often death by friendly fire occurs.  There's no reason to believe COPs are any less fallible. 

There is no "one size fits all" answer for your questions.  Humans are unpredictable.  You prepare for what is most likely, and then react quickly when things don't go as planned.   Situational awareness...

I think you misunderstand me, can we agree that a firearm would be the best defense to carry? If not then please ignore the rest.

Since we are not allowed to carry firearms would it make sense to get the most effective defensive item to carry?  The pepper gun may not be it, but I don't think for the reasons you state such as it makes you target, or someone might inflict more harm to you if you use, or because it looks like a gun as the same could be argued for carrying a firearm. I'd prefer to get a CCW but until that option is available to me I'm looking at other things to carry besides my pocketknife and pepper spray for self defense.

The pepper gun may not be it, but I don't think for the reasons you state such as it makes you target, or someone might inflict more harm to you if you use, or because it looks like a gun as the same could be argued for carrying a firearm.

The differentiating factor between a squirt gun and a real gun is one actually IS a firearm.  Therefore, the chances that "someone might inflict more harm to you if you use" a real gun are greatly diminished due to its lethal effects. 

So, no, pulling a real gun and pulling a pepper squirt gun do not make you the same type of target.  One gives you an even chance against the opponent who also has a gun.

The differentiating factor between a squirt gun and a real gun is one actually IS a firearm.  Therefore, the chances that "someone might inflict more harm to you if you use" a real gun are greatly diminished due to its lethal effects. 

So, no, pulling a real gun and pulling a pepper squirt gun do not make you the same type of target.  One gives you an even chance against the opponent who also has a gun.

I still think you misunderstand me. You pull out a real gun because your life is in danger (meaning you are already a target), unfortunately you can't cause Hawaii does not have CCW. So what do you pull? What is available to me right now that I am aware of is a pocket knife and pepperspray. If there is something more effective other than a gun (since I can't carry one) I'd like to have that. Trust me I'd rather have a real gun on my person but if there is something I can legally carry at this time that is more effective than my current limited choices I'd like to explore that.

I still think you misunderstand me. You pull out a real gun because your life is in danger (meaning you are already a target), unfortunately you can't cause Hawaii does not have CCW. So what do you pull? What is available to me right now that I am aware of is a pocket knife and pepperspray. If there is something more effective other than a gun (since I can't carry one) I'd like to have that. Trust me I'd rather have a real gun on my person but if there is something I can legally carry at this time that is more effective than my current limited choices I'd like to explore that.

Tons of items you can carry, just as long as they are not considered dangerous weapons. 

    §134-51  Deadly weapons; prohibitions; penalty.  (a)  Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with any dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and may be immediately arrested without warrant by any sheriff, police officer, or other officer or person.  Any weapon, above enumerated, upon conviction of the one carrying or possessing it under this section, shall be summarily destroyed by the chief of police or sheriff.

So, whatever you choose should be both effective and discrete.  Tactical flashlights and tactical ink pens are possibilities.  Also, keychains with finger holes and pointy tips are sold around the Internet. 

You can open carry a 9 inch diving knife on your belt and be legal.  There's no length limits for knives as long as they have a utility purpose, not just for fighting or stabbing humans.  Weird!   

Thanks for the info. Very helpful. I do have a tactical flashlight but I can see it in a different light now (no pun intended.. well maybe some).

I'll look into the tactical key chains too.

There was a discussion on these types of pepper spray dispensers before. Taken from,  http://www1.honolulu.gov/council/ocs/roh/rohchapter41a2642.pdf

Bold portion from under 41-37.1 Definitions is the part that makes these type of devices illegal. If the propellant needs an ignition source then its a no-go.


Article 37. Possession, Use, and Sale of Pepper Sprays for Self-Defense
Sections:
41-37.1 Definitions.
41-37.2 Exceptions.
41-37.3 Restrictions on possession, sale, and use of pepper sprays.
41-37.4 License to distribute--Application and requirements.
41-37.5 Conditions of license.
41-37.6 Suspension or revocation of license.
41-37.7 Forfeiture.
41-37.8 Rules.
41-37.9 Violation--Penalty.
Sec. 41-37.1 Definitions.
"Adult" means any natural person other than a minor.
"Chief of police" means the chief of police of the City and County of Honolulu or the chief of police's authorized
subordinate.
"Chemical device" means any aerosol container or other device that is capable of emitting chloroacetaphenone (CN),
orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile (CS), or oleoresin capsicum (OC), or any combination or derivative thereof, in a vapor or liquid form.
"Controlled substance" means the same as defined in HRS Section 329-1.
"Department" means the Honolulu police department.
"Designated place of business" means a fixed place of business owned or leased by a licensee and designated by the
licensee in its application under Section 41-37.4 as a place where it desires to sell or otherwise distribute pepper spray on a regular
basis. "Designated place of business" does not include any temporary space rented or leased by a licensee at a swap meet, open
market or other similar setting.
"Licensee" means any person who has obtained, pursuant to Section 41-37.4, a license to sell, transport or otherwise
distribute pepper sprays in the city.
"Minor" means any natural person below the age of 18 years.
"Pepper spray" means any aerosol container or other device designed to fit into a handbag or a pants pocket and has a
trigger-guard, flip top or other mechanism to prevent the accidental release of the spray, that: (1) is capable of emitting oleoresin
capsicum (OC), or any derivative thereof, in a vapor or liquid form; (2) contains only the chemical substance oleoresin capsicum, or
any derivative thereof, without containing chloroacetaphenone (CN) or orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile (CS); and (3) contains a nonflammable
propellant and/or carrier.
"Person" means the same as defined in Section 41-25.1.
(Added by Ord. 95-49)

I swear all these laws suck and only serve to the detriment of crime victims.  If the perp is going to cause you harm or shoot you I hope you get off a pepper blast with a marking agent so there's a chance the fugger can be stopped and found.  I don't care if it's shaped like a dill.. pickle.

Wouldn't the key chain be considered a brass knuckle?   

Oh I know, let's just call 911 while we're getting stabbed, thrown in a dumpster or our heads bashed in!  That'll work!

A walking stick or a flashlight are honestly your best bet here.  You could also use a dive knife if you wanna go that route.