Once again I repeat my own adage:

Accusations are cheap.  Defense is expensive.

Gee whiz, all anyone has to do is pick up a bullet from somewhere (or buy a box of reloading bullets), bring it home, and claim you found it on your property.  You don't even have to "blame" somebody, just let peop[e draw their own erroneous conclusions and the psychological damage is done. 

Accusations are cheap.  Defense is expensive.

Terry

"Accusations are cheap.  Defense is expensive."

Terry

With the price of ammo, it's too  bad we can't defend ourselves with accusations !   

Next meeting 11/26 @1900 Hahaione School.
Perhaps our community should be represented.
Herb Schriener is the Parks and Recreation guy. He helped us out before, headed off an ambush.
Maybe one of our more eloquent can get on the agenda and defend us.
Might be worth the effort.

From an email received...

Mike Muramoto, the Manager of Range Operations for the City and County has
notified all users of the range that targets will "no longer" be placed
beyond the 100 yard line. I don't know if that includes shooting at any
objects on the ground beyond 100 yards, like at 200 yards and beyond.

I have no answers as to "why".  You can ask Mike when you see him at the
range. This might be a result of a "recent claim" that a bullet hit a house
on the other side of the mountain.

Perhaps our local firearms organizations have undertaken efforts to get to the bottom of this so-called richocet bullet  but it doesn't seem apparent. One would think that our firearms community would make incessant demands upon the persons having custody of the offending projectile to produce and submit the same for forensic analysis  to determine whether the projectile originated from the range or elsewhere. Based on the projectile found it should not be difficult to determine the circumstances in which the projectile could reach the location in which it was found as well as the type of damage inflicted.  This is commonly done in courts across America in both criminal and civil cases. The results could rule out claims that the bullets are ricocheting off of targets from the range and justify removing the 100-yard range limitation.

 Now the range has limited shooting to 100yds only!
Please come to the Board Meeting at Hahaione school, 7PM the 26th of November.
Jim

Perhaps our local firearms organizations have undertaken efforts to get to the bottom of this so-called richocet bullet  but it doesn't seem apparent. One would think that our firearms community would make incessant demands upon the persons having custody of the offending projectile to produce and submit the same for forensic analysis  to determine whether the projectile originated from the range or elsewhere. Based on the projectile found it should not be difficult to determine the circumstances in which the projectile could reach the location in which it was found as well as the type of damage inflicted.  This is commonly done in courts across America in both criminal and civil cases. The results could rule out claims that the bullets are ricocheting off of targets from the range and justify removing the 100-yard range limitation.

I agree that our community being the accused has a right to examine the offending projectile.
I fear however that the chain of custody may be corrupt. Who knows what we will be looking at.
What may have been substituted as Mr Knudsen's agenda is clear an to what length will he go to support it?
He has no credibility.

 All the steel has been taken down at the Koko Head Rifle Range! 
In my mind, this was done to make it harder to get the old range back.

This sucks!

Next thing to be found is an arrow, then he will blame the archery range. Then a Frisbee - and blame it at Kapiolani Park.

If they're worried about ricochets, then why ban paper targets after 100 yards? It's not like your wood frame will cause a 5.56 round to go astray.

Playing devils advocate.  Perhaps it is true, that a projectile made it all the way over there somehow from the range.  They are keeping hush hush, so that the anti's don't completely shut down kokohead.  Some times making tooo much noise might be the wrong thing to do.   Just a theory......anyone in the know???

Let people set up wooden target frames at the 200 and 300 yard mark with a call to repair those targets at that distances every hour. Just a thought.

Been wanting to do this for a while.  Was curious what the elevation profile was from the range to Queens Gate so I did the path profile in Google Earth. 

Tried to use my ballistics program to see what sort of elevation would be cranked in to shoot 1.5 miles, but it will not go out that far.  To shoot 1500 yards has a mid point peak trajectory of about 10 feet.  Wanted to see what a barrel elevation of near 45° would do.

The profile scale is a bit distorted, but it roughly calculated out that you would need to shoot at something over 20° elevation to clear the peak.  Not very likely, and as I have said before, a ricochet is piss-por ballisticly and unlikely to make it very far.

Been wanting to do this for a while.  Was curious what the elevation profile was from the range to Queens Gate so I did the path profile in Google Earth. 

Tried to use my ballistics program to see what sort of elevation would be cranked in to shoot 1.5 miles, but it will not go out that far.  To shoot 1500 yards has a mid point peak trajectory of about 10 feet.  Wanted to see what a barrel elevation of near 45° would do.

The profile scale is a bit distorted, but it roughly calculated out that you would need to shoot at something over 20° elevation to clear the peak.  Not very likely, and as I have said before, a ricochet is piss-por ballisticly and unlikely to make it very far.

The people that want the range shut down care less about what is possible. They just want it shut down (Greg Knudsen)

Good stuff Robtmc!
It is visuals like this that need to be presented at the board meeting. What is being claimed is pretty near physically impossible, especially with a ricochet damaged projectile
Yes they clearly have an agenda, or at least Knudsen does, but we have to be smarter them. Where does Hizoner Da Mayor fit in on this? He has helped us before, but I have little faith.

That having been said, maybe the time is right to push for a real, modern shooting complex someplace else. Central Oahu? perhaps, and maybe we can enlist the Hawaii Kai Board and
their constiuency to support it. The well heeled East Oahu community is if nothing else politically connected. I know I could get behind closing the range at Kokohead IF IF IF, and ONLY
 IF,a realistic alternative is put in place. Something like what has been proposed for Puuanahulu on the Big Isle would do the local shooting community well.
We will never get what we don't ask for. We need to be/stay organized as a group. All of us!

Thoughts??

was this the same guy that showed the unspent round and said that it was fired from the range?

Yup. That's the same guy that also said a perfectly shaped 30 cal round, tarnished and covered with dirt, dug out of his yard was a ricochet.

Here's a pic of the offending round.  Taken from the Khon2 website.

Damn, that's the crappiest bullet photograph I ever saw.  No scaling, no contrasting background...  that's "evidence?" 

What caliber is it supposed to be?

Rob, thanks for the analysis. That's what i'm talking about. If the firearms community really wants a voice in these neighborhood meetings and the weight of authority behind their opinions, a forensic ballistic expert should be retained and his/her findings presented. The findings of an expert are based on an objectively verifiable ballistic probability based on measurable data.

Damn that looks good for a ricochet !
Is that handmade rifling ?

  Hers the latest story from KHNL


http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/24049729/stray-bullet-fears-prompt-change-at-koko-head-rifle-range