So thoughts on this bill please (I know it's not a new one, but still relevant to the HICCW movement)... My understanding of the wording of the bill would mean that I could go to another state, get a CCW permit and then come back to HI and carry (subject to Hawaii laws pertaining to where I can carry). This would be a Federal bill, and as such would pertain to all states. As Hawaii does "allow" concealed carry, but HPD just doesn't issue the permit, would this be the work around if it were to go into effect?   

"H.R. 822, introduced in the U.S. House by Representatives Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Shuler (D-N.C.), would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed firearm permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed firearm permits, or that does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms for lawful purposes. A state's laws governing where concealed firearms may be carried would apply within its borders. The bill applies to D.C., Puerto Rico and U.S. territories. It would not create a federal licensing system; rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize drivers' licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Rep. Stearns has introduced such legislation since 1995."

You can't carry.  Non-residents and probably most of the military can.

You can get a permit from another state (i.e., Florida Non-resident) and carry in other states except Hawaii.

http://hawaiiccw.com/legislation/national-reciprocity-bill-introduced-house/

`Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms
`(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that–

so on and so on
 
It is a CCW Reciprocity Bill, not a National CCW-enacting bill. Therefore, the above highlighted makes perfect sense and is not confusing. If Hawaii is your home of record or residence, this bill will not enable you to CCW in Hawaii.
 
Having said that, if enacted, the disparity between the residents and temporary visitors will no doubt force the hand of the politicians to enable us citizens of Hawaii to similarly be armed. We're already 2nd class citizens compared to the rest of the country. This will become obvious to everyone once it's enacted and hits headlines and lawmakers/policymakers shit their collective beaurocratic pants.

Hopefully.

As the text reads, if this became law, I could CC in Hawaii but Hawaii residents could not.  That makes no sense to me, but many laws have that quality.

Snow will fall in Honolulu before the president signs this bill, in the unlikely event it gets to his desk.  Pursuing your permit-denial strategy and going to court would be a better idea.  How's that project going?

As the text reads, if this became law, I could CC in Hawaii but Hawaii residents could not.  That makes no sense to me, but many laws have that quality.

Snow will fall in Honolulu before the president signs this bill, in the unlikely event it gets to his desk.  Pursuing your permit-denial strategy and going to court would be a better idea.  How's that project going?

Does hail count? =Op

Anubs two words for you.

Debt

Ceiling

so let me get this right. a bunch of guys from america with CCW come down here for vacation or wedding or whatever. they go out, have a great time get drunk, loud, etc. run into a bunch of local people. both exchange some words, the tempers go up. the CCW guys fire, locals dead or critical. CCW guys can say whatever they want to the cops. they go back home. we go funeral.

is this how it would work?

Wow. Way to plan on the liberal's side of the court.

Not exactly sure how to answer this. Keep you emotional and you're a valuable resource for the future. Not so valuable before though.


However, I must ally with truth first & foremost. Fact-check how often CCW fights happen. Educate yourself in that regards.
Or choose not to.
Then fight for equality afterwards.

so let me get this right. a bunch of guys from america with CCW come down here for vacation or wedding or whatever. they go out, have a great time get drunk, loud, etc. run into a bunch of local people. both exchange some words, the tempers go up. the CCW guys fire, locals dead or critical. CCW guys can say whatever they want to the cops. they go back home. we go funeral.

is this how it would work?

If they came from Hawaii, they too, would be from America. Secondly, that is really not  how it statistically pans out. Your generalization however, while very dramatic, is partially correct.   They still have to follow the rules of the unrestricted ccw'er. In your case, the CCW'er would go to jail, because provoking a fight doesn't authorize you to utilized deadly force.

funtimes,  saw your link...  so, why would we not be able to carry here with a non resident permit?

I can see it now.  this bill passes and the state legislature get's together and says.  "We have passed a bill to stop issuing ccw permits to citizens of Hawaii and outlaw concealed carry, therefore federal reciprocity does not matter, no concealed carry in Hawaii"

oh, for a second I thought I sensed an old friend in this thread that came back to visit    slowly trickling in to stir the pot?    could be wrong

If it allowed you to carry it would be a national carry, not reciprocity.  That would get the amendment into 10th amendment lawsuits re: states rights.  This is basically planned to play out similiar to a drivers license.   

They can dictate unde the commerce clause that the states respect other states carry permits, as the 2nd amendment is a fundament right to self-defense, and that right doesn't stop at state lines.

They can't dicatate that *YOUR* state, allow you the right to self-defense.  That would play out just like the brady background bill did, which lost in federal court.

Honestly, something a little less than the response above is what we want.  We *WANT* locals to get angry about this. If the state tried to ban CCW, well, "Total prohibitions" are not reasonable. If we didn't already have enough ammunition to fight a RKBA outside the home, they will be dumping a few cases on our side =).

Funtimes - Here's a thought.. Say it passes. Hawaii residents could theoretically set up dual residence in another state and get their ccw permit as a resident. They could then return to Hawaii with a resident permit from that state and Hawaii would have to recognize it. Nevada might be a good choice as they actually require a Nevada permit for all residents in order to carry in the state.  Property there seems pretty cheap right now......

That's not our old friend. If it is, he changed a lot. This is not the droid you're looking for. 

Regarding your scenario of outlawing CCW. By law, every state have to have provisions for either concealed or open carry. Once this elephant is forced into the spotlight in Hawaii, they have to make a critical choice. Choose concealed or open. I really don't see open carry happening in Hawaii. But I suppose they can just as easily create a "may issue" open carry process and abolish concealed carry provisions altogether. Thereby demolishing the effect of the federal CCW-reciprocity bill. Before anyone says anything...if a jackass like me can think this up, I'm sure profesionally trained lawyers can too.

For the rest - backing up FT 100%. He put it much more tactfully than I did lol.

I mentioned the residency thing somewhere else. Chicago supreme court proved that you can live in two different states at the same exact time per Rahm Emanuel's corrupt case. Maybe register to vote and use a friend/family's address? Then be in Hawaii "just to work"?

You can't carry.  Non-residents and probably most of the military can.

You can get a permit from another state (i.e., Florida Non-resident) and carry in other states except Hawaii.

http://hawaiiccw.com/legislation/national-reciprocity-bill-introduced-house/

Funtimes - I am in the military and I also have an out of state CCW.  I am not a resident of Hawaii, thank goodness.  So you are saying that we are allowed to carry in Hawaii if it passes.  Awesome!
















AWESOME!

Funtimes - Here's a thought.. Say it passes. Hawaii residents could theoretically set up dual residence in another state and get their ccw permit as a resident. They could then return to Hawaii with a resident permit from that state and Hawaii would have to recognize it. Nevada might be a good choice as they actually require a Nevada permit for all residents in order to carry in the state.  Property there seems pretty cheap right now......

I think dual resident might open you up to some legal issues. That's just me thinking though. Nothing prevents you however, from staying in vegas for 6 months out of the year, voting vegas, paying vegas taxes etc, and never intending Hawaii to be your "permanent" domicile.  Residency is a *REALLY* tricky issue, we will have to tread lightly.  There will be arrests.

Funtimes - I am in the military and I also have an out of state CCW.  I am not a resident of Hawaii, thank goodness.  So you are saying that we are allowed to carry in Hawaii if it passes.  Awesome!


AWESOME!

That is my interpretation and a few others as well.  It will be interesting. Please call your legislator and speak with him. Ask them to sponsor the bill.

Ahh, got it Funtimes, thanks for clearing it up. I was hoping this would have allowed us a "work around" the permitting issues here in Hawaii and still keeps us legal...

Quote

Funtimes - I am in the military and I also have an out of state CCW.  I am not a resident of Hawaii, thank goodness.  So you are saying that we are allowed to carry in Hawaii if it passes.  Awesome!


AWESOME!

That is my interpretation and a few others as well.  It will be interesting. Please call your legislator and speak with him. Ask them to sponsor the bill.

Okay.....thanks for enlightening us on the issue.....and it sounded so exciting at first.   

Having said that, if enacted, the disparity between the residents and temporarity visitors will no doubt force the hand of the politicians to enable us citizens of Hawaii to similarly be armed. We're already 2nd class citizens compared to the rest of the country. This will become obvious to everyone once it's enacted and hits headlines and lawmakers/policymakers shit their collective beaurocratic pants.

I think this seems like the most likely scenario.  Though this bill may not benefit us immediately, it would give us great leverage in passing/amending our own state CCW laws.