.

It may be helpful if we add certain security guards and humane society officers to the CCW list. As well as parker ranch security and security for other ranches. Being armed IS a requirement if someone gets rowdy or a vicious animal is out of control. Just an idea. Add more people into the 2@ fold. Any thoughts on this guys and gals

.

What pisses me off is that I have 4 years of LEO experience, trained people to use the 9mm pistol, have (2) CCW certs and HPD still wouldn't not only let me have a waiver for handgun training (which was understandable with regards to instruction of state laws), but wont also issue a CCW.

That's why I'm digging this, because if they pass this and I still can't get a CCW, I'm suing the shit out of them. $10 million! 

I read about a guy in Illinois, with their new CCW law having just gone into effect this month, who had 40 (forty) YEARS of firearm experience, including many years as a firearms instructor and trainer for military and law enforcement. He was still required to take the 16 hour CCW class. They ain't gonna make it easy, for anyone. Irrational? Illogical? Absurd? No problem, do it anyway.

Please use select all, copy and paste the legislator list below, as-is, into the "To:" field and email them expressing support for Gabbard's Bill SB2353.

Please also paste the list into the body of another email and send it to everyone 2a friendly you know and ask them to send emails as well.

I know these bills have been introduced before but let's try to creat such a firestorm of relentless support, that the media won't even ignore it.

Just imagine if tens of thousands of 2a supporters send emails every day saying they will spread the word that senator or representative so and so does not want the vulnerable - like women and elderly citizens - to be able to protect themselves from rapists, murderers and domestic assaults; or the helpless, vulnerable homeless to be able to protect themselves from being savagely beaten, shot, or stabbed to death.

Even the lefty legislators would be afraid to oppose the bill, for fear of losing reelection, if they thought the public viewed their opposition as a sign of elitist indifference to the dangers our citizens face every day, especially the vulnerable. Hey, this rhetoric that exploits recent violence reported on TV works wonders for the Democrats, so why don't we use it?

Post your emails here to help others get ideas!

"senespero@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senespero@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "sengaluteria@capitol.hawaii.gov" <sengaluteria@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "sengreen@capitol.hawaii.gov" <sengreen@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senbaker@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senbaker@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senchunoakland@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senchunoakland@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "sendelacruz@capitol.hawaii.gov" <sendelacruz@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "sendige@capitol.hawaii.gov" <sendige@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senenglish@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senenglish@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "sengabbard@capitol.hawaii.gov" <sengabbard@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senhee@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senhee@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senihara@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senihara@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senkahele@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senkahele@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senkeithagaran@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senkeithagaran@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senkidani@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senkidani@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senkim@Capitol.hawaii.gov" <senkim@Capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senkouchi@Capitol.hawaii.gov" <senkouchi@Capitol.hawaii.gov>, "sennishihara@capitol.hawaii.gov" <sennishihara@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senruderman@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senruderman@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senshimabukuro@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senshimabukuro@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senslom@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senslom@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "sensolomon@capitol.hawaii.gov" <sensolomon@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "sentaniguchi@capitol.hawaii.gov" <sentaniguchi@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senthielen@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senthielen@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "sentokuda@capitol.hawaii.gov" <sentokuda@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "senwakai@capitol.hawaii.gov" <senwakai@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repaquino@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repaquino@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repawana@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repawana@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repbelatti@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repbelatti@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repbrower@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repbrower@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repcabanilla@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repcabanilla@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repcachola@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repcachola@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repcarroll@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repcarroll@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repcheape@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repcheape@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repchoy@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repchoy@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repcoffman@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repcoffman@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repcullen@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repcullen@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repevans@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repevans@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repfale@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repfale@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repfukumoto@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repfukumoto@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "rephanohano@capitol.hawaii.gov" <rephanohano@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "rephashem@capitol.hawaii.gov" <rephashem@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "rephar@capitol.hawaii.gov" <rephar@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repichiyama@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repichiyama@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "reping@capitol.hawaii.gov" <reping@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repito@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repito@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repjohanson@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repjohanson@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repjordan@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repjordan@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repkawakami@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repkawakami@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repkobayashi@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repkobayashi@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "replowen@capitol.hawaii.gov" <replowen@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repluke@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repluke@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repmcdermott@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repmcdermott@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repmckelvey@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repmckelvey@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repmizuno@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repmizuno@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repmorikawa@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repmorikawa@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repmoshiro@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repmoshiro@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repnakashima@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repnakashima@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repnishimoto@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repnishimoto@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repohno@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repohno@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "reponishi@capitol.hawaii.gov" <reponishi@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "reprhoads@capitol.hawaii.gov" <reprhoads@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repsaiki@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repsaiki@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repsay@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repsay@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repsouki@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repsouki@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "reptakai@capitol.hawaii.gov" <reptakai@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "reptakayama@capitol.hawaii.gov" <reptakayama@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "reptakumi@capitol.hawaii.gov" <reptakumi@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repthielen@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repthielen@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "reptsuji@capitol.hawaii.gov" <reptsuji@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repward@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repward@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repwoodson@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repwoodson@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repwooley@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repwooley@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repyamane@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repyamane@capitol.hawaii.gov>, "repyamashita@capitol.hawaii.gov" <repyamashita@capitol.hawaii.gov>

And, language needs to be added that would allow a CCW issued in one county to be good within the entire state.

Re-reading the bill. Page 1, line 7: "These licenses shall be valid statewide..."

I'm ok with taking a class and it would make me feel better knowing other people did as well.

.

Posted this in the other thread, same stuff applies:

Once you get it - you can work on revising it. If people think that you will pass something without a bunch of stupid rules, regulations, and idiotic stuff - welll - they are smoking something!

Baby Steps.

1st step) Get any kind of CCW bill heard. At all. Period.

That's why when I thought the state laws issue, I just shut up and took the HDF class, because I figured I'd learn something I didn't know 

But if I already took 2 CCW courses, taught people how to draw OTB for 3 years, and will have another type of certification training this year that requires me to know how to draw from a concealed position, they better not give me some BS about how it doesn't count because it wasn't conducted in the state of Hawaii.

My based-on-nothing-but-a-wild-guess prediction: They will give you some BS about how it doesn't count because it wasn't conducted in the state of Hawaii.

Seriously, there is nothing specific about the training required in there except that  "...meeting the training requirements of section 134-2(g) [see below], to include practical training in drawing and replacing a handgun from and to a holster". (I note that it doesn't say "concealed holster"... which is actually "practically" important since the first step is "clear"... maybe the "concealed holster" part is just assumed, but most law language doesn't make assumptions...). So it sounds like it's up to the instructor of the class to determine whether that criteria has been met. As usual with such requirements, there doesn't seem to be any kind of "qualification" exam and/or practical practical test that one could take to demonstrate competence, but rather you are required to take a class, no matter what your level of expertise (see story of Illinois firearm trainer with 40 years of experience above).

Hawaii Revised Statutes, 134-(g) 

Effective July 1, 1995, no person shall be issued a permit under this section for the acquisition of a pistol or revolver unless the person, at any time prior to the issuance of the permit, has completed:

     (1)  An approved hunter education course as authorized under section 183D-28;

     (2)  A firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement agency of the State or of any county;

     (3)  A firearms safety or training course offered to law enforcement officers, security guards, investigators, deputy sheriffs, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement by a state or county law enforcement agency; or

     (4)  A firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor or a certified military firearms instructor that provides, at a minimum, a total of at least two hours of firing training at a firing range and a total of at least four hours of classroom instruction, which may include a video, that focuses on:

         (A)  The safe use, handling, and storage of firearms and firearm safety in the home; and

         (B)  Education on the firearm laws of the State.

          An affidavit signed by the certified firearms instructor who conducted or taught the course, providing the name, address, and phone number of the instructor and attesting to the successful completion of the course by the applicant shall constitute evidence of certified successful completion under this paragraph.

Posted this in the other thread, same stuff applies:

Once you get it - you can work on revising it. If people think that you will pass something without a bunch of stupid rules, regulations, and idiotic stuff - welll - they are smoking something!

Baby Steps.

1st step) Get any kind of CCW bill heard. At all. Period.

Yeah, the first baby step would be to get the committees to actually hold hearings on the CCW bills. Without a hearing, absolutely nothing CAN even happen. And even WITH hearings, not sure any bill{s} would make it out of committee. Then there is the full legislature (well over 90% Democrats... not that there's anything wrong with that), and then there's the governor. So, yeah, baby steps! I'm guessing court-ordered mandate is the only realistic hope, and not sure how "realistic" that is. I'm still willing the take the time to send emails and make phone calls to the committee member legislators asking them to at least hold hearings.

.

Ok...lets read the bill:

(5) Is a citizen of the United States; Has resided in the State for at least six months or is a member of, or spouse of a member of, the military, as defined in section 124A-1, that is stationed in the State, or is a retired law enforcement officer; Is twenty-three years of age or older; Is not ineligible to possess a firearm pursuant to section 134-7; Has demonstrated competence with a firearm by meeting the training requirements of section 134-2(g), to include practical training in drawing and replacing a handgun from and to a holster.

HRS 134-2, Section G:

(g)  Effective July 1, 1995, no person shall be issued a permit under this section for the acquisition of a pistol or revolver unless the person, at any time prior to the issuance of the permit, has completed:

     (1)  An approved hunter education course as authorized under section 183D-28;

     (2)  A firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement agency of the State or of any county;

     (3)  A firearms safety or training course offered to law enforcement officers, security guards, investigators, deputy sheriffs, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement by a state or county law enforcement agency; or

     (4)  A firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor or a certified military firearms instructor that provides, at a minimum, a total of at least two hours of firing training at a firing range and a total of at least four hours of classroom instruction, which may include a video, that focuses on:

         (A)  The safe use, handling, and storage of firearms and firearm safety in the home; and

         (B)  Education on the firearm laws of the State.



OK....so what does HDF, OGC and LIFE teach again? HANDGUN SAFETY AND STATE LAWS. Who do you think is going to teach local CCW classes? THE SAME DAMN PEOPLE. And being that I have taken a CCW classes in 2 states, the classes I did attend address state laws in the state they are taught in and somewhat the laws in which such CCW licenses are recognized. 

That's not hopeful/wishful thinking; that is called common sense and reading between the lines.

My apologies. I misread the section on the training (In my defense, I said It was a quick read through...) and you are correct about the required training. I thought it said "134(g)(2)" which would have limited to a program administered by the police, which is what I said in my original post. So, again, you are correct that the current training would suffice, EXCEPT for the part about teaching about drawing from the holster. Since that is a new requirement, none of the "old" training would qualify. I suspect this would create a similar problem as when they changed the training requirement from 3 to 4 hours of classroom time. Because there was no grandfather clause, the older certificates stating students received only 3 hours of training, were not being accepted by HPD.

Good find about the statewide acceptance. And Chris is right, we should take what we can get, but if we can make changes now, all the better. 

.

In case interested people aren't following on the legislative updates thread (https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=13077.0) Please email or call and ask them to hold a hearing in their committee:

SB2353 (Gabbard concealed carry bill) referred to same committees as SB2168 (Slom concealed carry bill). I'll post the emails of the committees members, but you can find the full listtings on the thread for SB2168 (https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=13045.0), which includes their phone numbers, districts, etc.

PSM
Senate Committee on
Public Safety, Intergovernmental and Military Affairs

PSMtestimony@capitol.hawaii.gov
808-586-6361

All committee member emails:

senespero@capitol.hawaii.gov,senbaker@capitol.hawaii.gov,sengaluteria@capitol.hawaii.gov,
sengreen@capitol.hawaii.gov,senslom@capitol.hawaii.gov

JDL   

Senate Committee on Judiciary and Labor

All committee member emails:

senhee@capitol.hawaii.gov, senshimabukuro@capitol.hawaii.gov, sengabbard@capitol.hawaii.gov,
sengaluteria@capitol.hawaii.gov, senihara@capitol.hawaii.gov, sensolomon@capitol.hawaii.gov,
 senslom@capitol.hawaii.gov

WAM   
Senate Committee on Ways and Means

All committee member emails:

sendige@capitol.hawaii.gov, senkidani@capitol.hawaii.gov, senchunoakland@capitol.hawaii.gov,
sendelacruz@capitol.hawaii.gov, senenglish@capitol.hawaii.gov, senespero@capitol.hawaii.gov,
senkahele@capitol.hawaii.gov, senkeithagaran@capitol.hawaii.gov, senkouchi@Capitol.hawaii.gov,
senruderman@capitol.hawaii.gov, senthielen@capitol.hawaii.gov, sentokuda@capitol.hawaii.gov,
senslom@capitol.hawaii.gov