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The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908) (Read 9314 times)

Aiea78

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The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« on: January 21, 2014, 11:17:06 AM »

The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
"Would treat state-issued concealed-carry permits like drivers’ licenses, allowing law-abiding citizens with concealed carry privileges to concealed-carry in any other states that also permit it by law," according to the bill sponsor.

Weigh in with your Senators: https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1908

See other bills related to the Second Amendment and gun control: http://www.popvox.com/blog/2014/firearms-and-gun-control-bills-2013/
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Rocky

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 11:35:26 AM »
Quote from: Aiea78 on January 21, 2014, 11:17:06 AM
The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
"Would treat state-issued concealed-carry permits like drivers’ licenses, allowing law-abiding citizens with concealed carry privileges to concealed-carry in any other states that also permit it by law," according to the bill sponsor.

Unfortunately,
(A) has a statute that allows residents of the
                State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed
                firearms; or
                    ``(B) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed
                firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes;  :(
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Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2014, 11:40:45 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on January 21, 2014, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: Aiea78 on January 21, 2014, 11:17:06 AM
The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
"Would treat state-issued concealed-carry permits like drivers’ licenses, allowing law-abiding citizens with concealed carry privileges to concealed-carry in any other states that also permit it by law," according to the bill sponsor.

Unfortunately,
(A) has a statute that allows residents of the
                State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed
                firearms; or
                    ``(B) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed
                firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes;  :(

Unless Hawaii refuses to allow non-resident permits obtained by Hawaii residents (i.e.  Hawaii resident obtains non-resident permit from Florida), then this Act would allow us to carry here. 

Resident CCW permits are legal here.  The police chief just doesn't ever approve them.
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"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

Funtimes

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2014, 02:07:04 PM »
People should really understand the effects of a law like this.  Hawaii will not stand for mainlanders being able to carry on the island, when they cannot themselves carry - there will be crying. (I was going to say outrage... but come on..).

If that were to happen, I think my next shirt would sum it up it well.

"Haoles can carry, Hawaiians cannot."  Think about that for a second!
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Funtimes

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2014, 02:08:17 PM »
Quote from: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on January 21, 2014, 11:40:45 AM
Unless Hawaii refuses to allow non-resident permits obtained by Hawaii residents (i.e.  Hawaii resident obtains non-resident permit from Florida), then this Act would allow us to carry here. 

These acts would do nothing for people in the state.  You couldn't use a FL permit to carry in Hawaii if you were a Hawaii resident.  It would literally make this stuff just like a driver's license.   When you move to a state, you need to comply with their driving rules etc. (license, registration, insurance etc.).  This would be no different.
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aieahound

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2014, 04:26:50 PM »
Quote from: Funtimes on January 21, 2014, 02:07:04 PM
People should really understand the effects of a law like this.  Hawaii will not stand for mainlanders being able to carry on the island, when they cannot themselves carry - there will be crying. (I was going to say outrage... but come on..).

If that were to happen, I think my next shirt would sum it up it well.

"Haoles can carry, Hawaiians cannot."  Think about that for a second!

If the Reciprocity Act is passed would we have a choice ?
Would tourists be able to carry and us not ?
( serious questions as I haven't read the bill )

If this is true, the shirt should read "Visitors can carry. Locals cannot."
Funtimes, you racist !  :rofl:

On a lighter note, I'm a Haole, could I carry ?
( Born and raised but still a Haole )
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Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2014, 04:33:41 PM »
Simple test to determine who should/should not carry ...

"Do you support the right of Americans to protect themselves by carrying loaded, concealed firearms in public?"

Yes = Approved    :thumbsup:

No = Denied      :wave: - Buh-bye!
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"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

suka

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2014, 06:55:25 PM »
Yeap,
Visitor can carry but locals cannot.
COOL
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Rocky

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 09:05:56 AM »
Quote from: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on January 21, 2014, 11:40:45 AM
Unless Hawaii refuses to allow non-resident permits obtained by Hawaii residents (i.e.  Hawaii resident obtains non-resident permit from Florida), then this Act would allow us to carry here. 

Resident CCW permits are legal here.  The police chief just doesn't ever approve them.
I would then argue  the fact that "the police chief just does not approve them" amounts to ``prohibition of carrying concealed
                firearms by residents
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“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
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Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 09:33:50 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on January 22, 2014, 09:05:56 AM
I would then argue  the fact that "the police chief just does not approve them" amounts to ``prohibition of carrying concealed
                firearms by residents

That's already being argued in court.  The LAW as it stands, however, permits concealed carry for anyone with a legitimate license to carry.  Whether or not permits are actually issued in Hawaii doesn't change that fact.  Other states allow Hawaii residents to obtain CCW permits in those states.  As long as Hawaii is forced to recognize out of state permits, that is potentially a viable workaround for Hawaii residents to carry in Hawaii.

Once that happens (assuming it will), the state will have 3 options:  allow the non-resident permits, but continue denying Hawaii CCW permits;  disallow non-resident, out-of-state permits (have to reside in the issuing state);  begin approving Hawaii applications for CCW -- allowing visitors to carry and not residents would not last very long without legislative action.
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"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

punaperson

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2014, 09:40:21 AM »
Quote from: Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra on January 22, 2014, 09:33:50 AM
The LAW as it stands, however, permits concealed carry for anyone with a legitimate license to carry.  Whether or not permits are actually issued in Hawaii doesn't change that fact.
Could you point me to that law? My understanding is that Hawaii has NO reciprocity agreement with any other states, therefore your CCW license from another state is null and void in any state, including Hawaii, that does not enter into such a reciprocity agreement (thus, people acquire non-resident CCW licenses from several states that have reciprocity with different states in order to have more "coverage" for traveling). Hawaii has reciprocity agreements with all other states re drivers licenses, that's why they are recognized here. Not so with CCW licenses. Or so I thought... but if you can provide the law you reference I'd like to be proven wrong.  :shaka:
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suka

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2014, 04:05:58 PM »
Quote from: punaperson on January 22, 2014, 09:40:21 AM
Could you point me to that law? My understanding is that Hawaii has NO reciprocity agreement with any other states, therefore your CCW license from another state is null and void in any state, including Hawaii, that does not enter into such a reciprocity agreement (thus, people acquire non-resident CCW licenses from several states that have reciprocity with different states in order to have more "coverage" for traveling). Hawaii has reciprocity agreements with all other states re drivers licenses, that's why they are recognized here. Not so with CCW licenses. Or so I thought... but if you can provide the law you reference I'd like to be proven wroRng.  :shaka:
The federal bill will force every state to recognize another states ccw, regardless of the individual states issue law since all 50 states now allow ccw in one form or another . If the HPD chief refuses to issue, does not mean HI is completely ban on issuing ccw. The fact that one can apply for a permit makes it a a carry state eligible under the bill.



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aieahound

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 04:15:33 PM »
Quote from: suka on January 22, 2014, 04:05:58 PM
The federal bill will force every state to recognize another states ccw, regardless of the individual states issue law since all 50 states now allow ccw in one form or another . If the HPD chief refuses to issue, does not mean HI is completely ban on issuing ccw. The fact that one can apply for a permit makes it a a carry state eligible under the bill.

I could be wrong but I think the glitch is that the federal bill says if you are issued a CCW permit in your resident state, there will be reciprocity.

As such, if your CCW is not issued by Hawaii ( where you reside ) reciprocity will not apply to us in our own State.

Hence visitors can carry but locals cannot.

Darms or Funtimes,  correct me if I'm wrong.
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suka

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2014, 04:23:16 PM »
That is correct, since HPD will not issue to HI residents. All visitors with CCW in their own state or non resident ccw of other state can carry legally. And HI residents are denied by a single person.
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punaperson

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 04:42:51 PM »
Quote from: suka on January 22, 2014, 04:05:58 PM
The federal bill will force every state to recognize another states ccw, regardless of the individual states issue law since all 50 states now allow ccw in one form or another . If the HPD chief refuses to issue, does not mean HI is completely ban on issuing ccw. The fact that one can apply for a permit makes it a a carry state eligible under the bill.
Sorry. :oops: I didn't understand that the reference was to the hypothetical situation of the national reciprocity act being enacted. Wonder if Congress would have to override a veto by Obama? Wonder if it could pass the Senate in the first place during this election year? Wonder how long it'll get tied up in the courts with states such as Hawaii likely legally challenging it in some way. I hope I live long enough to see something definitive happen that would give the thugs a moments pause before victimizing people, and maybe a few more thugs losing a few more rounds.

In looking for the bill I found this:

Prognosis:
4% chance of getting past committee.
1% chance of being enacted.

There is a link on the page as to how they came up with that prognosis, the site is here: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s1908

I'd guess those numbers are probably about the same as the chances for our CCW SB2353 making it (or maybe a lower probability, if you can imagine that, given the party ratios in the state senate and house compared to the U.S. senate and house).
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 04:51:25 PM by punaperson »
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Funtimes

Re: The Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (S 1908)
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2014, 08:52:26 PM »
Think of it this way as well:

State can't tell you how to issue your permit in your state, but they do have the power to tell you that you will observe and obide by permits issued in other states.     Best example, driver's license.  They will not tell a state, "You need to have a 25 question test."  That's up to your state to decide.  But, they can say that you will recognize permits from those out of state.  Moreover, just like you can't just go next door to a new state and apply for their license while being a resident of another state, you cannot do that here.

If I can't get a driver's license in Hawaii because I can't pass the test, then I cannot just go next door to get one.   I'm not sure if that helps some people, but this is pretty much how it would work.   
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