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Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols (Read 46603 times)

suka

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2014, 07:20:51 PM »
the FFL just call and fax in a form to HPD to register their incoming  firearms.


Unless KGS specifically specified the receivers as long guns they are just receivers.  :crazy: confusing eh!

For nearly all other States that does not require registrations, the ATF uses the simple term , did it have a stock on ?


ATF simple fact sheet:
Once a rifle always a rifle. (sbr)
Once a MG always a MG.
Pistols can be rifle.
Once a rifle, always a rifle.


« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 07:27:26 PM by suka »
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dogman

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2014, 07:36:57 PM »
Quote from: jonjon on March 02, 2014, 06:32:49 PM
If I have a stripped receiver that I already registered at HPD can I turn it into a pistol?
Currently HPD will not allow that, I asked them. I sent BATF a letter requesting clarification of "if an individual utilizes a receiver that has never been assembled as a rifle action, he may lawfully assemble a semiautomatic pistol". I specifically asked them if this would apply even if the receiver was previously registered as a rifle but never assembled. I used the example of local gun shop inventory that may have been registered locally as a rifle and is for sale as a stripped lower receiver. I figure it's best to show documentation rather than to try and debate the issue with HPD.  I understand I may not have a reply for a couple of months but their website says all letters will receive a response. They do not respond to emails.

Before I submitted the letter posted at the beginning of this topic, HPD told me I could not register Aero Precision lower receivers as pistols because they only make rifle lowers.   
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jonjon

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2014, 07:37:45 PM »
Quote from: suka on March 02, 2014, 07:20:51 PM
the FFL just call and fax in a form to HPD to register their incoming  firearms.


Unless KGS specifically specified the receivers as long guns they are just receivers.  :crazy: confusing eh!

For nearly all other States that does not require registrations, the ATF uses the simple term , did it have a stock on ?


ATF simple fact sheet:
Once a rifle always a rifle. (sbr)
Once a MG always a MG.
Pistols can be rifle.
Once a rifle, always a rifle.

just checked all my hpd registrations and all pistols registrations are labeled "pistol" and all rifles are labeled "rifles" but all of the stripped receivers are labeled "receiver" and does not state pistol or rifle. I know I used my long gun permit to obtain the receivers but shouldn't it be labeled "rifle receiver" on the registration to make it clear it is not a pistol?
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dogman

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2014, 07:42:58 PM »
Quote from: jonjon on March 02, 2014, 07:37:45 PM
just checked all my hpd registrations and all pistols registrations are labeled "pistol" and all rifles are labeled "rifles" but all of the stripped receivers are labeled "receiver" and does not state pistol or rifle. I know I used my long gun permit to obtain the receivers but shouldn't it be labeled "rifle receiver" on the registration to make it clear it is not a pistol?

I asked them about that also. They said it's noted on their records when it's a pistol.
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jonjon

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2014, 07:55:45 PM »
Quote from: dogman on March 02, 2014, 07:42:58 PM
I asked them about that also. They said it's noted on their records when it's a pistol.

doesn't  the ATF classify AR lower receivers as "Other" on the 4473 - so does HPD require the local FFL to state rifle when reporting to HPD?
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dogman

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2014, 08:01:13 PM »
I know Daniel at KGS checks "other" on the 4473 for AR lower receivers, I don't know what happens after that.
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suka

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2014, 08:11:44 PM »
Quote from: dogman on March 02, 2014, 08:01:13 PM
I know Daniel at KGS checks "other" on the 4473 for AR lower receivers, I don't know what happens after that.
if its others on the 4473, than it not a rifle or a pistol and its just a receiver.
technically it can be built into a pistol
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jonjon

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2014, 08:20:54 PM »
Quote from: suka on March 02, 2014, 08:11:44 PM
if its others on the 4473, than it not a rifle or a pistol and its just a receiver.
technically it can be built into a pistol

So what rules or laws are the HPD following? Are they just interpreting the laws/rules to the best of their knowledge or are they actually enforcing a law/rule? How can we get clarification in writing?
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suka

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2014, 08:28:25 PM »
Quote from: jonjon on March 02, 2014, 08:20:54 PM
So what rules or laws are the HPD following? Are they just interpreting the laws/rules to the best of their knowledge or are they actually enforcing a law/rule? How can we get clarification in writing?

Their own!
So what rules or laws are the HPD following?

Yes
Are they just interpreting the laws/rules to the best of their knowledge

You cant AG restricts that for civilian.
How can we get clarification in writing?
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suka

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2014, 08:31:41 PM »
Would it just piss them off, if one brought in a detachable mag pistol lower with a 16" barrel.

And there is not a thing they can do but register it.
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dogman

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2014, 08:33:38 PM »
Quote from: jonjon on March 02, 2014, 08:20:54 PM
So what rules or laws are the HPD following? Are they just interpreting the laws/rules to the best of their knowledge or are they actually enforcing a law/rule? How can we get clarification in writing?
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=13744.0
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suka

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2014, 08:36:02 PM »
16' barrel pistol
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suka

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2014, 08:37:37 PM »
Quote from: suka on March 02, 2014, 08:31:41 PM
Would it just piss them off, if one brought in a detachable mag pistol lower with a 16" barrel.

And there is not a thing they can do but register it.

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dogman

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2014, 09:00:04 PM »
Quote from: suka on March 02, 2014, 08:31:41 PM
Would it just piss them off, if one brought in a detachable mag pistol lower with a 16" barrel.
Since I plan on registering firearms in the future, I try not to piss them off  ;)
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jonjon

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2014, 09:23:34 PM »
This is how I want to bring my pistol in for registration once i am done "permanently" attaching my mag  :thumbsup:

I think I would also need to bring some "Snickers"


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suka

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2014, 10:01:59 PM »
  :rofl:  75 rd mags
HAAAAAAAAAAA! :D

That will piss um off badly!

 :rofl:
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suka

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2014, 10:05:33 PM »
Headline reads:

Recently surge in AR pistols
has HPD crying foul!

The law was to keep these dangerous pistols out of civilians hands.
These ghost pistols are just to evil for civilians to have.
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OGC

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2014, 06:29:41 AM »
Please use caution!  ATF defines pistol or handgun as begin designed to be utilized with one hand.. (which is absolutely crazy as every proper, non "sport" handgun grip style is two handed)

Having a forward grip on a pistol, or just a place easy to hold, may be construed as manufacturing a AOW, which is an NFA items not not legal in HI.  Come to think of it, I know that short barreled, suppressors and full auto is banned by name in the HRS 134, I don't know if AOWs are..  This might be a totally legal option but would still required a $200 tax stamp…  Im going to look into it.

plagiarized from internet: (but I agree with what it says)

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.

To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph; and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an “AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.
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dogman

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2014, 07:00:17 AM »
Glad to have your input OGC. If the completed firearm is registered with HPD is it safe to assume it's totally legal?
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Kanakamaoli23

Re: Registering AR (or whatever we're going to call them) lower receivers as pistols
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2014, 07:29:03 AM »
Quote from: dogman on March 03, 2014, 07:00:17 AM
Glad to have your input OGC. If the completed firearm is registered with HPD is it safe to assume it's totally legal?

Eric I don't beeline that to be a safe assumption because the guys at the window are not legal experts. If a cop who understands the law better saw you using it at the range he could arrest you and this is a gray enough area that the state probably could prosecute. I would refrain from putting any type of vertical or afg. Maybe a bipod type grip would be okay. You can make the case that the purpose is not for a second hand to maneuver the weapon but to set the gun down on a table to be stabilized.
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