.

Yup the fire trucks passed us on the way home.

We should log all rescues on this thread to keep an account of the 'dangers' of hiking the mountain and the cost to taxpayers.  This log could be used as evidence,  to prevent further closure attempts, when people use the trail as an excuse to shut the range down.

Please log all known rescues, time, date, and other pertinent issues.

Thanks Q

how about Twitter?

Why not bring it up at the HK cat convention?

Why not bring it up at the HK cat convention?

one of the HK neighborhood board members asked HFD about trail rescues at the last meeting
their answer was, "uhhh" and then the chair moved the discussion along

I'm VERY INTERESTED, in this subject. If anybody has seen or knows of rescues having to be made on KH trail, please PM me with any info. Particularly the number of rescues per month, year, etc. Also info on rescues/injuries on other trails around the island. Just now on the news there was a report on a couple of knuckle heads that are going to be helicoptered off of stairway to heaven.
Thanks!
 

If you happen to be at the range on a regular basis weekly or if you live at the base of the crater, you will note how frequent rescues involving HFD and EMS really are.  In one year, I would bet it easily costs taxpayers more money on first responder aid than entire cost of the recent range renovations and I am talking about that one trail only. 

Don't think we should be playing tit for tat with the hiking trail. The users vastly out number the users at the range. If you piss them off and they start a petition against the range we will lose in the long run. Those of you that just moved here and don't plan on staying here for life Don't be dumb asses and fuck it up for us that call this home.

Those of you that just moved here and don't plan on staying here for life Don't be dumb asses and fuck it up for us that call this home.

that's unnecessary
yesterday's blowup was bad enough and now you want to start another one?

Just stating the obvious. Why are we going to pick a fight with the hikers over our frustration with the city.

Don't think we should be playing tit for tat with the hiking trail. The users vastly out number the users at the range. If you piss them off and they start a petition against the range we will lose in the long run. Those of you that just moved here and don't plan on staying here for life Don't be dumb asses and fuck it up for us that call this home.

No plans for playing "tit for tat" as you put it. Just compiling information, and not just about KH trail. But your opinion is duly noted.

BTW, I've lived here for 36 years, 18 of which have been in Koko Head Terrace. Married to a local girl, 2 kids, 1 that goes to Kamiloiki, 1 you probably know.

Dial back that attitude maybe?

Thanks,       

Haha. I guess my post came off a little grumpy. Good! BTW, it was a general statement not directed at anyone in general, just food for thought.

Last I checked the range was controlled by the city and kokohead is state land. So good luck trying to use one to get something for the other, we all know how well the state works with the city.

Just stating the obvious. Why are we going to pick a fight with the hikers over our frustration with the city.

Not trying to pick a fight with the hikers. If they want to go down range of a live fire area, that's up to them.  I just want to collect the information in case they want to bring up the range costs and use the trail as an excuse. Which has been done.  One can argue about the number of rescues, but if you have solid real data you are better off. 

Just stating the obvious. Why are we going to pick a fight with the hikers over our frustration with the city.

I don't think a majority of the members here are frustrated with the city at this point - or at least IMO they shouldn't be if you look at the facts. A lot of people were frustrated because they weren't able to shoot, but now that the range is open, everything is back to normal so to speak.   Without getting into the veracity of the claims, which have been several threads in themselves, the mayor and the city said they'd have the range open by the 29th.  What happened? In the end they opened the range a few days earlier than planned.  Wait, did I just say that?  A government emergency renovation that didn't take longer than planned to fix, and wasn't forgotten about?    

Let's all remember that the trail was "closed" once before.  Hiking that trail is a privilege - just look at what happened with Mariner's Ridge.  Kamehameha Schools got tired of the complaints from the home owners about people leaving trash behind, not picking up after their pets, and ending up in people's backyards, so they put up that fence to keep unwanted people out.  Now the only way to legally hike that trail is by monthly guided tour. What I'm saying that there will be a point in time again which either the city or state gets fed up with all the headaches that come from the trail and shutters it again - or at least restricts access.  I don't see the harm in helpfully reminding the city of how often resources are diverted to supporting that trail.

 

I don't think a majority of the members here are frustrated with the city at this point - or at least IMO they shouldn't be if you look at the facts. A lot of people were frustrated because they weren't able to shoot, but now that the range is open, everything is back to normal so to speak.   Without getting into the veracity of the claims, which have been several threads in themselves, the mayor and the city said they'd have the range open by the 29th.  What happened? In the end they opened the range a few days earlier than planned.  Wait, did I just say that?  A government emergency renovation that didn't take longer than planned to fix, and wasn't forgotten about?    

Let's all remember that the trail was "closed" once before.  Hiking that trail is a privilege - just look at what happened with Mariner's Ridge.  Kamehameha Schools got tired of the complaints from the home owners about people leaving trash behind, not picking up after their pets, and ending up in people's backyards, so they put up that fence to keep unwanted people out.  Now the only way to legally hike that trail is by monthly guided tour. What I'm saying that there will be a point in time again which either the city or state gets fed up with all the headaches that come from the trail and shutters it again - or at least restricts access.  I don't see the harm in helpfully reminding the city of how often resources are diverted to supporting that trail.

+1 

The city did a great job of bringing in the repairs as quickly as possible, no animosity towards them, and hopefully we can look forward to more improvements in the future.

In regards to the trails, people are dying, as evidenced by the closure of Mariners ridge, and the recent incident at Olomana trail.

 It's just a matter of time before a serious incident occurs at KH trail.

Let's all remember that the trail was "closed" once before

Just to clarify, was the trail ever really open?   I know it's been used by hikers as long as I can remember (lived in Hawaii Kai since the late 70's), but to my knowledge and from what's been discussed here I was under the impression it's not sanctioned and may still be considered trespassing, officially... So I find it funny we, or at least some of the folks here on 2A, have to treat the subject of hiking Koko Crater with kid gloves.   If we the tax payer are paying for people to be rescued from an "illegal" hike then we do have a valid argument.   

As far as the frequency of rescues off the crater? I often see the helo up there, almost on a weekly basis.   I'm sure there are rescues that happen without the need for HFD's helo as well.   One of the guys I'm flying with here is a former rescue captain so I'll ask him at some point this week, I'll also ask my other friend who's one of the Air 1 pilots once I'm back home. He's already said they've had to fly several hops up the crater, sometimes twice in one day.

Anyway, I understand the concern people have over what can happen, and the tit-for-tat appearance of this particular argument.   But really, if public safety is such a concern, our community leaders should either sanction that trail (going through all the hoopla required to do so) or REALLY close it.

As always, IMHO 

Boomah

Here's a link...

It shows Koko Crater "Stairs" as Maintained by Na Ala Hele... That part of Koko Crater is NOT considered non-sanctioned, at least per the site legend.

http://www.explorationhawaii.com/hikes/

Info on Na Ala Hele

http://hawaiitrails.ehawaii.gov/info.php

Boomah 

Methinks the Explore Hawaii site is fudging just a bit. When you check the Na Ala Hele site, Koko Head isn't listed.

The sign at the bottom of the trail also states it is "Not maintained". So I think the State may disagree as well.


                                                                                                                                                   

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