, I doubt you own an "assault rifle" as that denotes a select fire weapon. You most likely own..l an "assault weapon" you are correct, forgive my mistake.  I can only dream about owning a full auto AR or AK.

You, from what I can deduce from your multiple statements, don't think folks should be able to concealed carry, or that you believe the practice should be restricted to a small class of people you believe are better trained. (on a side note, you know what the yearly round count to re-qualify at HPD is? Take a wild guess.....) However, the data (and this is true, hard data, not the "..I feel..." or "I think"...type of emotional argument that is so frequently used by anti's...) does not support the wild west shootouts or gunfights over minor issues as you seem to suggest will happen. Florida is a prime example. As one of the leaders in the "shall issue" concealed carry movement, they originally created, funded and maintained a database just to keep track of crimes committed by all these newly permitted residents. They maintained that database for something like 10 years and finally shut it down. You know why? Because, in general, those individuals that are willing to go thru the necessary process to get a CCW are extremely law abiding. The legislature finally determined that so few crimes, of any kind, not just firearms related, were committed by CCW holders that it was no cost effective to keep the registry open. Data from other states mirrors those findings and currently, across the nation, those that hold CCWs are less likely than the population in general to commit ANY crime, let alone a firearms related one. And it is interesting that many of the folks who were initially opposed to CCW based on the same fears and concerns you raise, such as LE, have subsequently come out and said they were wrong and that all the bad things they tthought would happen never did. And finally, I think it says a lot that not one state that has made it easier to get a CCW has repealed its law, or subsequently made it more difficult to get one. 
very interesting these are the statistics that I had asked for in the first place.  Where are these metrics published (I.e. are they verifiable?)

And while you are entitled to your opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts. As stated above, your concern that WHEN we get CCW folks will be shooting each other over parking stalls and other perceived slights, just isn't going to happen. It hasn't happened anywhere else in the US that has liberal CCW laws, why do you suspect it will happen here? its just a concern I have, what credible sources provide info that you are talking about, so I can read and investigate further.  Are the people of Hawaii dumber than their counterparts on the mainland? as in every state, some are dumber than others, if we use test scores as an indicator, what do you think the answer is?Are they in general, more prone to unprovoked outbursts than those on the mainland? I think yes, thats why Q thinks if ccw is granted, people will start becoming more polite.What personality flaws make you think individuals in Hawaii aren't going to be as safe, responsible, and restrained as those on the mainland? personality wise, as evidenced by this very forum, in my experience ppl in Hi are more emotional, more passionate than ppl on the mainland.  Try go to one local party, vs a mainland party, seem more subduedYou do realize that most of the shooting we have had here have been with illegal, non-registered guns, right?nope I didnt, please sight your source. With the exception of Uyesugi and Deedy, the notable firearms related shootings have all been with non-registered guns. So, don't be too concerned about those legal, law abiding citizens with guns, be concerned with the criminals that will carry and use firearms regardless of what any law says. 
interesting, definately makes me think more about ccw

And I would bet that all those news stories, or at least the vast majority, were about people using illegal guns, not lawful concealed carriersit is possible, but no way to confirm as it wasnt stated in the news. I also hate to break it to you, but a lot of the crimes, including violent and firearms related, are not reported in the news. If you personally know any cops, ask them haw frequently these crimes are actually committed versus reported. You will be surprised. I have discussed this with cop friends and relatives, what you speak of was never said
And God did not say you not kill, he said you should not murder. Killing in defense of yourself, your family, or the church was never thought to be a sin. 
my friend, you do not get to interpret GODs word for me, you are way out of bounds.  You are correct, murder, and the bible defines a murderer as anyone who strikes another down and causes death.  If you need other bible verses to support the fact to support, lmk.


Please see my other response about a right versus a privilege. Was it a right to own a handgun in Washington DC before the Heller decision? Of course it was, that's why it went to court. Just because you can't exercise a right doesn't make it not a right and suggesting otherwise again shows a certain amount of ignorance about the topic one would otherwise think one would have at this point in time. And, just to be clear, I use ignorance/ignorant not as a pejorative, but rather to convey that you just don't know...as I have said, owning a handgun is vastly different than ccw said gun.  If you have the right to ccw, do it.  Let me see you do it.  If you get arrested, your defense can be, "you are within your rights". Let me see you exercise your right lawfully....just saying.

THIS is why I state that you do not understand the requirements that must be met prior to using Deadly Force, as YOU are the one asking the questions here in bold.  Here's one.  Never point you weapon at someone unless you intend to shoot.  BASIC firearms safety.  Maybe I was taught differently, but safe firearms handling and the rules and regulations of Deadly Force and when it is justified to use is ingrained from training.  You stay you understand the requirements, then you should be able to answer your questions yourself then.
so my response denying that theres a correlation between property crime and use of deadly force, because you cannot use deadly force for property crime  confuses you.  I know the answer to the question, I am posing the question to the individual who posted it so the realize the answer.

OMG man, you keep missing my point.  You are basically stating that because you worry about "sensitive" people with the ability of obtaining CCW will go and shoot people for no reason, that CCW is not a good idea for Hawaii.  Am I right?  PLEASE explain how that is any different than someone that is worried that an "assault weapon" (as the liberal media would say) in the hands of a crazy person is the reason they should be banned.    
I see your point, youre missing mine.  Where can you bring an assult weapon lawfully right now? Its very restrictive.  And thats good, it keeps guns at home or at the range or on hunting grounds.  CCW will now mean firearms could be everywhere around us at any time.  Get it?

I was not bashing (don't know how many different ways I can put that), but it was supposed to be informative for you to see another perspective of what others may gather from your posts.  If you still do not see the correlation then I have nothing more to add (and will stop trying).  Well seemed like a cheap shot, and it was insulting to me. LoL.. its like say "no get insulted but youre ugly, and I only wanted to tell you that ppl might think youre ugly cuz your face.  Ah kaman. 

For the military, I will speak for myself.  Part of our basic job entails LEO type of duty (armed sentries).  So, I guess your talking specifically base police (to make the group smaller). Do those LEO type duties extend beyond the jurisdiction of the thing or place youre guarding?  I dont mind military leo types but only within their jurisdiction, which is usually on base.

As far as the race thing, that is a different tangent that you decided to go off on your own.  Not me.  YOU are the one that quoted me and then stated "this is Hawaii".  Hence my response.  STOP trying to insinuate that I am saying anything if I didn't state it myself.  To answer your question, no I am not stating that because I am Hawaiian that only my views represent "local style".  Your assumptions have been way off the mark man, so if you need clarification it's better you ask than assume.  You da one said "im kanaka maoli" you brought up race....the fact of the matter is this Hawaii,  a region made up of many races and cultures.

nuff for today, my beer getting cold.... enjoy your weekend

Me too, I let statistic weigh in on my decisions also.  When I asked for statistics, none were provided.  Are you seriously questioning if my feelings are justified? My uncomfortable feeling is a result of my own perceptions, how can you tell if my feeling are justified, as they are my feelings.  Just like the feelings of being threatened are based on the individuals perceptions may or may not be justified to you, but to me they are justified. Imam agreeing with you about the problem with extreme scenarios, but that goes for both sides of the issue, which is what I was trying to illustrate.   
My question WRT CCW, is not wether crime is low, was crime high before and now that ccw was is allowed, did it go down?  I.e. did ccw actually ear decrease crime?   I understand what youre saying about criminals, however criminals are the extreme, if you read my posts, I have stated that my concern would be more about the increased number of firearms in public and the careless use of these firearms.  I think I mentioned that the shooting were reported to be due to apparent road rage and altercation in a parking lot etc.  These were non accidental from citizens, not LEO, if citizen was a criminal it was not or could not be determined via news report.
WRT gang related crime, youre saying gangs cause higher crime rates and other states have a bigger problem with gang crime than Hawaii, so arent you providing statistics that say Hawaii has less crime? So do we then need ccw to reduce crime when we already have less crime?

Bubba:

….As for "interpreting GODs [sic] word for [you]..." Well, bubba, this just illustrates even more how indoctrinated you are to your own beliefs and how unwilling you are to learn. Here are a few links, readily available in less than a few seconds via Google that easily refutes your biblical "definition" of murder:

 



 

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If you recall your Sunday School studies, you should also remember that it was Jesus that said if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak to buy one....what use is a sword if not for killing?

The blood avenger (Executioner), was not allowed to pity a murderer or else the land would be defiled ( Num 35:34 ; David put himself in the hands of God because of this (2 Sam 12:13 ). No money could be exchanged to “buy back your life” was allowed since this would have signified consent with the crime, undermining the value of human life and breaking the covenant with God.

 

(Exodus 21:12, 14)

      12“He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death. 13“But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint you a place to which he may flee. 14“If, however, a man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor, so as to kill him craftily, you are to take him even from My altar, that he may die.

 

(Leviticus 24:17)

      17‘If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death. 18‘The one who takes the life of an animal shall make it good, life for life. 19‘If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him: 20fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him. 21‘Thus the one who kills an animal shall make it good, but the one who kills a man shall be put to death. 22‘There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God.’” 23Then Moses spoke to the sons of Israel, and they brought the one who had cursed outside the camp and stoned him with stones. Thus the sons of Israel did, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

 

The two types of Killing in the bible discussed above are defined in a few places.

1-         Premeditated murder

and

2-         accidental manslaughter

 These are the only two choices discussed in the bible.  To quickly determine which category shooting an individual with a gun falls into, please understand that pulling a trigger intentionally does not fall under accidental manslaughter.

 

It is important to note that the Old Testament saw a fundamental difference between the two types of homicide ( Deut 19:1-13 ; Joshua 20:1-7 ), providing two levels of meaning for “Rasah”.

 

(Deuteronomy 19:4-7)

 4“Now this is the case of the manslayer who may flee there and live: when he kills his friend unintentionally, not hating him previously— 5 as when a man goes into the forest with his friend to cut wood, and his hand swings the axe to cut down the tree, and the iron head slips off the handle and strikes his friend so that he dies—he may flee to one of these cities and live; 6 otherwise the avenger of blood might pursue the manslayer in the heat of his anger, and overtake him, because the way is long, and take his life, though he was not deserving of death, since he had not hated him previously. 7“Therefore, I command you, saying, ‘You shall set aside three cities for yourself.’

 

However, the same term could also apply to intentional manslaughter IAW GODs will ( Deut 4:41 ; 19:3-6 ; Joshua 20:3 ), blood vengeance ( Numbers 35:27 Numbers 35:30 ), the legal execution of a criminal (after a conviction of at least ) ( Num 35:30 ).

 

The Old Testament. Vs The New Testament. Although the New Testament writers lived in a different time and environment, they were consistant in their view of murder with their Old Testament counterparts.

 

JESUS’ interpretation of the sixth commandment differed from the contemporary Jewish scholars (who had a narrowly literal view), and agreed with the “spirit of the Old Testament law on homicide” ( Matt 5:21-22 ). He pointed out a spiritual cause for murder; its root was internal anger.

One was not righteous by simply refraining from homicide; an angry person was also subject to judgment. He thus contended that hating one's brother was in the sphere of the command against murder, as it was part of a process leading to a potential murderous act (Lev 19:17-18 ). JESUS' words were in effect a full summary of the murder law (Exod 21:12 ; Deut 17:8 ).

 

The intent as well as the act came under God's judgment.  He condemned the evil disposition of the heart that lay at the root of the transgression. The beginning of the outward act of murder was sinful anger or hatred, an attitude that was a sin against the sixth commandment. and added that the cause of murder was a consequence of frustrated desire ( James 4:2 ; 1 Kings 21 ).

 

It is important to understand the individuals who were given the right to exact the death penalty for murder ( John 19:10-11 ; Rom 13:1-4 ).

A whole nation could be guilty of murder ( Matt 27:25 ; Acts 2:23 Acts 2:36 ; 3:15 ; 5:28 ; 7:52 ).

Satan was considered the original murderer ( John 8:44 ).

Murderers had no place in God's kingdom ( Gal 5:20 ; Rev 21:8 ).

 

The death of Christ was the supreme example of murder in the Scriptures His violent death was recounted ( Acts 5:30, Acts 26:21 ; Eph 2:16 ) Christ was murdered in hostility. Christ was symbolized as the slaughtered Lamb, signifying his humble obedience and innocence ( Rev 5:6-12 ; 13:8 ). Slain martyrs were likewise labeled ( Rev6:9 ).

 

Another common Hebrew word for killing “Harag” could also be used for indirect (accidental or as a result of)… murder. Meaning you can be held responsible for causing a death even though you did not physically kill someone.  In fact, striking with the intent to murder , and suicide (killing self) fell into this category as well.   

 

Pharaoh viewed Moses' killing of an Egyptian as a crime ( Exod 2:14-15 ). Joab's spilling of the blood of Abner was condemned ( 2 Sam 3:30 ; 1 Kings 2:5 ). David was responsible for the death of Uriah, although he did not physically kill him ( 2 Sam 12:9 ). Judicial murder was also condemned ( Exod 23:7 ; Psalm 10:8 ; 94:6 ). Harag was also the term used for Cain's crime against Abel ( Gen 4:8 ), and for the murderers of Ishbosheth ( 2 Sam 4:11-12 ).

Striking a parent (possibly with the intent to murder Exod 21:15 ), inducing death by miscarriage ( Exod 21:22-23 ), and sacrificing children to a foreign god ( Lev 20:2-3 ) were apparently considered murder and were capital crimes.

 

If a man beat a slave to death, he was probably punished (or better avenged) by being put to death by the covenant community ( Exod 21:20 ). There was no legislation outlawing suicide, as it must have been very rare. Those who committed suicide in Scripture had been placed in a situation of certain death ( Judges 9:54 ; 16:30 ; 1 Sam 31:4 ; 2 Sam 17:23 ; 1 Kings 16:18 ).

 

The bible also discusses unsolved Murders. A strange ceremony was performed when the murderer (or manslayer) was not known ( Deut 21:1-9 ). Since the religious implications (murder was a crime against GOD), the matter could not be left alone; the guilt had to be atoned for. The elders of the closest city were obliged to take responsibility for the act and instigated a procedure to remove the guilt. They took a heifer and broke its neck. They then washed their hands over the dead creature, symbolizing their accepting the burden for it, but not the guilt. They then declared that they were not eyewitnesses, and prayed for the innocence of the entire community. There was no compensation for the family of the victim.

 

HiCarry also brought up: “If you recall your Sunday School studies, you should also remember that it was Jesus that said if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak to buy one....what use is a sword if not for killing?”   I believe the above demonstrates some of the uses of the sword.  The bible shows when the passage is taken in context (Luke 22:36-38), Jesus is aware of fulfilling a prophecy that involves two swords, and is understood to mean Jesus has had “enough” of the topic and further rebukes the use by saying “those that live by the sword shall die by the sword.”

(Matthew 26:52) "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

 

All of the above can be found by reading a bible or “doing a quick google search”, but you must actually READ and understand the results.

 

My only source is the bible itself.

 

There are  numerous variations of faith, therefore without judging you and without knowing your specific denomination of faith, I would suggest, if you are truly interested in the subject, you put as much effort into research and understanding how GOD expects you to live your life.   The reason it is important for Christians  to understand ( if you are a Christian),  I think you are gambling with your own everlasting life by ignoring GODs word.  If you need more on this subject I suggest you pray and go to church.  I will say that you should be weary and not accept at face value anything that any “man” tells you, but put your trust in GOD and pray that you will be blessed with a better understanding of what is truly important in our short lives.

So what if we aren't Christian?

So what if we aren't Christian?

Bubba,

Once again, I see that you typed a lot, but didn't really say anything. The fact is that "kill" in the 6th commandment is a misinterpretation of "murder" which, as we know from both the historical perspective and the current legal definition, is not the same. If you choose to interpret it as to mean you cannot kill any person, at any time, for any reason, than go ahead. Just don't expect many other religious scholars to agree with you.

The bottom line is that CCW does not induce good, law abiding citizens to shoot others without good, justifiable cause. You have been provided all sorts of information that backs this general premise. If after researching it you still hold your same beliefs, so be it. Again, just don't be too surprised when the vast majority of folks (especially here) disagree with you.

Aloha

Bubba:
As for the whole "If you have a right to ccw …

States with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes.
Thirty-one states now have such laws—called “shall-issue” laws. These laws allow adults the right to
carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness.

I am not saying that CCW incites people to shoot others, i am saying that per the bible you do not have justification to shoot and kill someone unless you and another person witnessed a murder and agreed you were to act as the blood avenger and dispatch the murderer.  None of which you discussed, in fact what what was discussed was how you would make the decision (alone) and never shoot to wound (i.e. murder).