Routine Traffic Stop (Read 8209 times)

yurcarmeean

Routine Traffic Stop
« on: April 03, 2014, 05:00:34 AM »
On your way home from KHSC/the range you are pulled over for "failure to signal while changing lanes."  Your rifle is unloaded, in a locked hard case, in the trunk, and you are legit.  Do you:
1. notify the officer immediately as he walks up to your window that there is a locked up, unloaded firearm in the trunk.
...or...
2. answer the officer's question truthfully, obey compliantly, and maybe he won't ask, "are there weapons in the vehicle?"
If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.

Jdelacruz

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 05:50:08 AM »
If an officer pulled me over from the range and I know I did something wrong I will get my license, registration and insurance out ready. That's about it.

suka

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 06:00:51 AM »
Not in plain sight, not req or willing notify of firearms. Even if they were legal or illegal firearms.
You have your fifth amend rights.
 If it was a station wagon/ truck bed then its in plain sight and notify the officer.

dustoff003

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 06:33:21 AM »
1. Don't tell em shit your are legal and within your rights.

2. If they ask it is up to you how you answer. Me personally I am not going to volunteer any information.

You don't have to inform them of anything. If you were legally carrying concealed it is usually advised to advise an officer that your carrying or to provide your CCW credentials with your DL and other docs.

Unless the officer has probable cause they can't search your vehicle without either your consent and or a search warrant. If you give consent and your legal you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Now on the other hand you give consent and they find something it's on you.

nathanm14fan

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 06:58:37 AM »
Be direct, be honest. But you are under ZERO obligation to consent to a search. As a matter of course, I would never consent to a search of my vehicle for any reason. Pulling you over for a traffic violation is not rationale to search your car.

Tom_G

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 08:25:02 AM »
Having been pulled over on my way home from the range, it was a complete non-event.  The officer walked up to my window, saw cased handguns on the seat beside me, ammo cans on the floorboard, a cased rifle behind the seat (I drive a pickup), smiled and asked "Coming back from the range?"  He then informed me that my registration sticker was expired.  I had the new one at home, just hadn't gotten around to putting it on.  He sent me on my way.  I didn't get yelled at, threatened, beaten, maced, restrained, hassled, or have a gun pointed at my head.

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Bigkahuna808

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Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 09:52:46 AM »
I got t-boned in front of koko marina last year coming back from the range on my suv.  Had to call the police cause the lady who hit me just dug out.  I drive a suv.  I popped open my hatch sat down and cruised next to my frame and closed rifle bag.  Officer came over talked story and didnt care I was sitting next to my gear.  He did ask if I had a fun day shooting, told him its was a great day till the accident.  I have never had issues with HPD, they know we aint the criminals with anything to hide.

Haoleb

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 10:11:34 AM »
As long as you are within the law you have nothing to worry about. Remember that even if you get an uninformed officer that the law is still the law regardless of if an officer knows it or not. And you still have your rights.

Personally, I keep all my stuff covered up so nobody can see what I have in my vehicle and a "plain view search" will reveal nothing more than some stuff covered up with a blanket. If asked if I had any weapons I would simply say no. Sure some would argue this but I believe it is best to avoid any further intrustion. If you were in a carry state and carrying on your person that is a different story but that is not the case here.  They would have zero reason to search my vehicle and I certainly would not consent. If asked to step out of the vehicle roll up your windows and lock yours doors so they cannot illegally search your vehicle. The majority of people I see who get into problems are the ones who don't know their rights. Don't know when to keep their mouth shut and don't have enough sense to deny consent to search a vehicle.

yurcarmeean

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 02:31:52 PM »
As long as you are within the law you have nothing to worry about. Remember that even if you get an uninformed officer that the law is still the law regardless of if an officer knows it or not. And you still have your rights.

Personally, I keep all my stuff covered up so nobody can see what I have in my vehicle and a "plain view search" will reveal nothing more than some stuff covered up with a blanket. If asked if I had any weapons I would simply say no. Sure some would argue this but I believe it is best to avoid any further intrustion. If you were in a carry state and carrying on your person that is a different story but that is not the case here.  They would have zero reason to search my vehicle and I certainly would not consent. If asked to step out of the vehicle roll up your windows and lock yours doors so they cannot illegally search your vehicle. The majority of people I see who get into problems are the ones who don't know their rights. Don't know when to keep their mouth shut and don't have enough sense to deny consent to search a vehicle.

i feel like denial of consent to search could raise the cop's suspicion, even if you said "sure...if you can produce a warrant." 
but how many times out of 10 would the cop actually go thru the trouble to attain a warrant? 

o and do mags have to be unloaded during transport?
If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.

Haoleb

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 03:41:20 PM »
Luckily for you invoking your 4th and 5th amendment rights is not a valid reasonable suspicion or admission of any guilt or offense.  :thumbsup:

Surf

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 05:10:34 PM »
The following is a generalization and is in no way any reference to any agency within Hawaii.....

The majority of NON-administrative level Officers (street cops) will NOT necessarily share the political bias which may be the norm in the City or jurisdiction in which they work.  They may instead have similar reactions as noted by Tom_G and Bigkahuna808.   

kong

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2014, 08:39:15 PM »
As long as you are within the law you have nothing to worry about. Remember that even if you get an uninformed officer that the law is still the law regardless of if an officer knows it or not. And you still have your rights.

Personally, I keep all my stuff covered up so nobody can see what I have in my vehicle and a "plain view search" will reveal nothing more than some stuff covered up with a blanket. If asked if I had any weapons I would simply say no. Sure some would argue this but I believe it is best to avoid any further intrustion. If you were in a carry state and carrying on your person that is a different story but that is not the case here.  They would have zero reason to search my vehicle and I certainly would not consent. If asked to step out of the vehicle roll up your windows and lock yours doors so they cannot illegally search your vehicle. The majority of people I see who get into problems are the ones who don't know their rights. Don't know when to keep their mouth shut and don't have enough sense to deny consent to search a vehicle.

Besides the Plain View (Carroll Doctrine) a LEO may search in the same manner as a Terry Stop in the immediate lunging area of a vehicle.

asinapple8805

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2014, 06:36:18 AM »
What kong is referring to is a search incident to arrest, but it requires an arrest first.

The first thing that might apply are your Fourth Amendment guarantees, but Fourth amendment rights to be free from unreasonable, warrantless search and seizure are not absolute.

The issue here is the reasonableness of the search. While you guys seem to be applying normal search and seizure analysis, which applies to searches of the person, searches of dwellings, and seizures of property, in some limited circumstances these do not apply to an automobile.

The Supreme Court recognized that the auto is a strange exception in that it is private, but highly mobile. Because it can travel great distances, normal dwelling rules don't always apply.

Yes, you can consent to a search, but you have the constitutional right to withdraw or delimit your consent at any time.

Dblnaknak

Re: Routine Traffic Stop
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2014, 06:57:10 AM »

What kong is referring to is a search incident to arrest, but it requires an arrest first.

The first thing that might apply are your Fourth Amendment guarantees, but Fourth amendment rights to be free from unreasonable, warrantless search and seizure are not absolute.

The issue here is the reasonableness of the search. While you guys seem to be applying normal search and seizure analysis, which applies to searches of the person, searches of dwellings, and seizures of property, in some limited circumstances these do not apply to an automobile.

The Supreme Court recognized that the auto is a strange exception in that it is private, but highly mobile. Because it can travel great distances, normal dwelling rules don't always apply.

Yes, you can consent to a search, but you have the constitutional right to withdraw or delimit your consent at any time.

Wrong, what kong is referring to is a search for officer safety. It can only be done in the process of removing someone from the car for questioning or detention. Once the subject is removed the threat is minimized and the search is no longer legal. An arrest is not required.