Poll

If Hawaii was to become a Shall Issue State tomorrow would you apply for a CCW permit?

Yes
96.6%
No
0%
Don't Care
3.4%
Total Members Voted
118

Concealed Carry in Hawaii (Read 88325 times)

new guy

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #120 on: April 29, 2014, 02:06:18 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 07:45:00 AM by new guy »
Your mindset is your primary weapon. - Jeff Cooper

Bota-CS1

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #121 on: April 29, 2014, 02:47:37 PM »
It's simple. If you can't defend yourself (this includes the gun that you may carrying and may need to defend) you have no business carrying a gun. If you are unable to stop someone from taking your gun away from you and killing you and other people then too fucking bad, you do not deserve to CCW.

Why would being trained to defend and maintain custody of your firearm be a irrational requirement?!?!

Because you're assuming the CCW holder is able to physically overpower or is as strong as their assailant.  What happens when that person is a senior citizen or elderly, not be sexist but what if that person was a female?  How about those who are in  a wheelchair?  Should they not also have the right to a CCW?  IMO as long as you meet the requirements for the CCW more power to you.
No one is coming, it’s up to us.

Legislation should never be about depriving law abiding citizens of something, but rather taking those things away from criminals.

HiCarry

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #122 on: April 29, 2014, 03:27:36 PM »
Please make arrangements to have video and/or photos of the event. Otherwise we'll be subjected to endless revisionist versions... not from you, the other person. I can't wait to see what the "rules" will be for this! I hope it's not something like "You're lying face down on the ground and I'm on top of you... now draw your gun!"  :shaka:

Maybe those members of the 89 (so far) who have said they would apply for CCW could all be there (those who reside on Oahu) and Dblnaknak could examine each of them and tell them (and us) which ones met his criteria for "maturity", "common sense", and "self defense without a gun"?
I think a public venue with an open invitation to those interested is the way to go...

jonjon

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #123 on: April 29, 2014, 03:37:40 PM »
I think a public venue with an open invitation to those interested is the way to go...

+1  :shaka:

punaperson

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #124 on: April 29, 2014, 03:47:49 PM »
I think a public venue with an open invitation to those interested is the way to go...
Sounds good. Unfortunately those of us on other islands will be dependent on some kind of report... a video report would be best for me... no need to decipher possibly evaluative terminology (fast/slow, big/small, effective/ineffective, hit/miss, cheated/played by the rules, etc..

punaperson

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #125 on: April 29, 2014, 03:55:44 PM »
Yankee Marshall:  Guns Are Too Dangerous 4 Untrained Civilians.


+1  :thumbsup: That about sums it up... without any reference to the research that leads to the same conclusion.

bubba808

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #126 on: April 29, 2014, 06:02:09 PM »
Bubba808, let me make this easy for you

1. There will probably be some sort of training requirement in order to be able to get a carry permit. That should make you happy.
ok
2. Christians don't all agree with a total pacifism philosophy as you would and the links that you posted showed that. Even if they all did, you can't apply your beliefs in order to trump the constitution.
please quote where I advocated or stated a total pacifism philosophy? Sorry, I dont recall making a statement like that,  unless I made a mistake?

Also, can you tell me where I said my beliefs trump the constitution?
I said for me, personally, I would not use CCW. 
as HiCarry has recommended "never, never, never shooting to wound", that means, if using CCW, it would be to kill. 
The criteria discussed for when to use deadly force was "if actor fears serious injury, or serious property damage etc"

For me, personally I am trying not to kill anyone because I fear serious injury or property damage, as I dont believe the bible says that.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 06:31:11 PM by bubba808 »

HiCarry

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #127 on: April 29, 2014, 06:23:45 PM »
Sounds good. Unfortunately those of us on other islands will be dependent on some kind of report... a video report would be best for me... no need to decipher possibly evaluative terminology (fast/slow, big/small, effective/ineffective, hit/miss, cheated/played by the rules, etc..
OK by me...but I may be a little too busy to video....

Q

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« Reply #128 on: April 30, 2014, 01:33:18 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 03:38:47 PM by Q »

mauidog

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #129 on: April 30, 2014, 01:38:49 AM »
By too busy, do you mean attempting to avoid getting disarmed and pistol whipped with your own weapon?  :rofl:

I think he means "repeatedly and successfully simulating the shooting of an assailant unsuccessfully attempting to disarm him and pistol whip him with his own weapon!"   :thumbsup: 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 05:11:02 PM by mauidog »
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

2aHawaii

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Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #130 on: April 30, 2014, 07:21:33 AM »
Also, can you tell me where I said my beliefs trump the constitution?
I said for me, personally, I would not use CCW. 
as HiCarry has recommended "never, never, never shooting to wound", that means, if using CCW, it would be to kill. 
The criteria discussed for when to use deadly force was "if actor fears serious injury, or serious property damage etc"

For me, personally I am trying not to kill anyone because I fear serious injury or property damage, as I dont believe the bible says that.

Maybe that is where the confusion lies. It sounded like you were trying to make broad statements covering groups, when you were just discussing your personal opinion on only yourself carrying.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

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punaperson

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #131 on: April 30, 2014, 07:29:47 AM »
Maybe that is where the confusion lies. It sounded like you were trying to make broad statements covering groups, when you were just discussing your personal opinion on only yourself carrying.
There were numerous statements about criteria for ANYONE to receive government permission to CCW, including comments about other peoples' lack of "maturity" and "common sense" and the concern he/she had about being hit when out in public by "random flying bullets" [my paraphrase]. It's always been about "others" and what rules ought to govern their right to self-defense outside the home, and not just a personal individual choice by the person in question.

bubba808

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #132 on: April 30, 2014, 05:05:33 PM »
Maybe that is where the confusion lies. It sounded like you were trying to make broad statements covering groups, when you were just discussing your personal opinion on only yourself carrying.
Agree, there is confusion.  I will try to be more clear in the future (or not comment).  I was not making broad statements, I stated more than once that these my personal choices and did not apply to others.   

Kingkeoni

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #133 on: May 01, 2014, 08:05:20 PM »
I love how all of these type of threads end in arguments.

 :popcorn:
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

pastordennis

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Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #134 on: May 01, 2014, 10:19:42 PM »
The more conversation we have the better. Constructive conversation. But lets not forget. We represent a united front. WE will not give up our guns, ever. WE WILL have concealed carry without "permission". We dont need permission. But we will be safe and always take the higher ground. Tell the truth with facts and logic. Only the gun haters lie about guns.I am proud to belong to such a group of men and women of integrity and patriotism......sniffle, sniffle. We will achieve our goal. Until then hang tuff boys. We are all in this together.

Q

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« Reply #135 on: May 01, 2014, 11:07:22 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 03:36:38 PM by Q »

punaperson

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #136 on: May 02, 2014, 07:24:48 AM »
Unfortunately, several individuals have turned the WE crowd into the US and ME crowd with their thinking.
I don't think it is at all surprising that people within the firearms-owning community (at least 100 million people in the U.S.) have different views, values, and beliefs about everything, including firearms. Gabby Giffords and Mark Kelly both tout themselves as gun owners and post videos and photos of themselves shooting, and they founded an organization ("Americans for Sensible Solutions") basically (ultimately) intent on legislating guns out of private hands. There has been a lot of attention in the past year to "minorities" (women, African-American, Hispanic, Asian, etc., LGBT, "liberal", etc.) in the gun-owning community and how to expand that "minority" membership. There are a lot of "differences" among gun owners, and some gun owners are quite outspoken on their beliefs about who should or should not have what kind of firearm under what conditions (e.g. "assault" rifles or pistols, disqualifying standards for ownership or CCW, CCW in general or restrictions on who, when, where, etc.).

That's all well and good. I favor a broad interpretation of First Amendment rights to expression. And when those people make public statements supporting laws that would curtail or end my right to "keep and bear arms" I believe it is my responsibility to counter whatever arguments or data they present to support their position. Not in order to "change the mind" of the person posting a "restrictive" view of Second Amendment rights, but so that other readers (possibly fence-sitting lurkers) can see a counter-argument and/or data that is perhaps more sound. Usually it's not too difficult to counter such arguments because the people making them tend not to be logically consistent and rarely have any substantial data (that will withstand critical scrutiny) to support their positions.

But in a group of 100 million people who have (perhaps only) one thing in common, gun ownership, there are going to be a lot of differing opinions, even about the one thing they have in common.

xer 21

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #137 on: May 06, 2014, 04:05:43 PM »
i would apply even though i would likely not carry (here, at least).  just to excercise my right.  and because it would apply to other states, hopefully.

HiCarry

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #138 on: May 07, 2014, 10:14:53 PM »
Also, can you tell me where I said my beliefs trump the constitution?
I said for me, personally, I would not use CCW. 
as HiCarry has recommended "never, never, never shooting to wound", that means, if using CCW, it would be to kill.
The criteria discussed for when to use deadly force was "if actor fears serious injury, or serious property damage etc"

No. Again, you are incorrect and seem to have a great deal of difficulty grasping even simple concepts. You do not "shoot to wound" in part because it would damage your claim of fear of death or great bodily injury, as previously explained in great detail. And secondly, because trying to "shoot to wound" means attempting to hit a much smaller target under severe stress, which would greatly increase your chances of missing altogether.

But that does not mean that you "shoot to kill" either. You shoot to stop the threat so that your perceived fear of death or great bodily injury is eliminated. Don't interpret "don't shoot to wound" to mean "shoot to kill." It is incorrect tactically and legally. And in truth, most victims of gunshots by a handgun survive.....

punaperson

Re: Concealed Carry in Hawaii
« Reply #139 on: May 07, 2014, 11:05:25 PM »
Quote from: Dblnaknak on April 29, 2014, 10:04:13 AM:

Ill PM you next week. I'm off island till then.

Make it public...I'm OK with it....
Okay, it's the end of "next week"... any update on the scheduled "demonstration" (of CCW disarming of HiCarry by unarmed Dblnaknak)?  :shaka: