I will make an appt. with my Dr. this week.  From what I understand as I have been told, all the Firearms Div. is concerned with is if ever having a history, treatment of any of the 5 listed conditions( would prevent someone from processing a firearm.  I plan to present it this way to my dr., to write the statement, stating that there is nothing in my medical records to indicate that I have ever been diagnosed, treated or in treatment for any substance abuse, drug addiction, dependence, mental disease,,disorder or defect .<PERIOD!   

Is it a good idea to call KHON2 Action Line will investigate this whole mess up with Kaiser?

Here is the (02) Kaiser forms I received (1st is the same as posted earlier) & the (01) I received from HPD

Is it a good idea to call KHON2 Action Line will investigate this whole mess up with Kaiser?

that might be good idea?

Has anyone with Kaiser applied for a permit in the past couple of weeks and not have this problem? Asking because I also have Kaiser and I don't want to run into the same problem.

To:  renny10n

Went through the same process with Kaiser!
Spoke to my personal physician, he stands by the policy in fear of losing his job.
Also my doctor, "off the record" could not confirm any of the 3 conditions for denial.
Currently seeking legal advise!   

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Reload,   what happened, did your physician have a change of heart?

IANAL but is this something that has merits for a class action lawsuit?

Has anyone with Kaiser applied for a permit in the past couple of weeks and not have this problem? Asking because I also have Kaiser and I don't want to run into the same problem.

I did apply for a handgun permit the last week of May & no issues or questions asked when I told them I had Kaiser. Went to pick up my permit day after Kamehameha Day hoping it wasn't gonna be denied cause I seen this thread on here & again no problems when I picked it up.

IANAL but is this something that has merits for a class action lawsuit?

I was thinking the same thing.  Whether intentional or not, if the effect of their rule creates a catch 22 and places an undue burden on you (finding and paying for a doctor to clear you) when exercising your 2nd amendment rights, I see that as a Constitutional violation. 

If you were never treated for something that requires you to get a clearance letter, yet you are being told you need one, that's a catch 22.  How can you be cleared if you never had the treatment?  I think you should be able to go to HPD, tell then you have done nothing to require a clearance letter, and if they think you need one, ask them to show you the specific information they used to make that determination.  At that point, you'll know who in the process is causing the problem.  If a letter, call or visit doesn't correct the process, then a lawsuit might.

You have to show you were injured (2nd amendment violation), who caused it (need that from HPD saying specifically why you were denied), and what steps you took to notify the organizations of the mistake.

They can't create a covert series of information passing, and then refuse to let you in on who did what to cause your denial.  That in and of itself would smack of a plan to backdoor the system and deny new gun purchases to qualified purchasers.

Just me thinking out loud...   

What would happen if you didn't fill in the portion of the form where it asks for doctor information?  If I recall correctly, you don't have to have a doctor.  In that case, how would they even know to contact Kaiser?

If you fail to disclose that you have a healthcare provider you could be prosecuted for a felony.

If you fail to disclose that you have a healthcare provider you could be prosecuted for a felony.

Good to know.  However, you can have a healthcare provider and not have a doctor.  I had an HMSA PPO plan for years where I didn't have a primary doctor.  I'm assuming in those cases leaving it blank would be within the law?  I guess it's different for Kaiser, they automatically assign you someone right?

My husband has hit the same problem with Kaiser.  No records at all.  No documentation in his chart that this letter was even sent.  The info sent to HPD is vague...but Kaiser states that a medical clearance to acquire firearms is not a covered benefit under my health plan so he can't go to anyone within Kaiser to obtain the clearance.  His PCP states that there is nothing in his file that should raise a flag.  It's VERY frustrating to go through this process.

I would fire my PCP and tell them that I don't have one, which, would be 100% truth.  I wonder what requirements HIPPA has in forcing disclosure of your doctor.

I would fire my PCP and tell them that I don't have one, which, would be 100% truth.  I wonder what requirements HIPPA has in forcing disclosure of your doctor.

That might work if you were not part of an HMO...since they ask if you have a private MD or if you are part of an HMO (they usually ask if you are a Kaiser or Straub patient) it might be dicey, especially if you deny you have Kaiser....

Our PCP is actually helping us - it's not her fault - it's the policy of the physicians of Kaiser and their legal department who chose to take this stance.  Kaiser has decided NOT to respond to HPD to firearms requests in the past.  From what I've heard, HPD has called Kaiser on this and they (Kaiser) are now responding to firearm permit requests.  The form letter that is being sent is not included in his chart so there's no way that we can obtain a copy of it.  The release of information goes to medical records - not your individual PCP.

I would fire my PCP and tell them that I don't have one, which, would be 100% truth.  I wonder what requirements HIPPA has in forcing disclosure of your doctor.

Our PCP is actually helping us - it's not her fault - it's the policy of the physicians of Kaiser and their legal department who chose to take this stance.  Kaiser has decided NOT to respond to HPD to firearms requests in the past.  From what I've heard, HPD has called Kaiser on this and they (Kaiser) are now responding to firearm permit requests.  The form letter that is being sent is not included in his chart so there's no way that we can obtain a copy of it.  The release of information goes to medical records - not your individual PCP.

A non-response from a doctor is not treated as an indication you have a disqualifying condition or that the doctor has some reason to believe that you should not be able to own a gun. My physician has never replied to any of their requests for information and there have never been any adverse repercussions.

Well, I have today off, ( Fri., 20 June 2014)  Today, would have been my permit pick up day, I had scheduled after the first initial HPD visit.  Would have cancelled taking off today.   However  thought to take advantage and try to make progress in resolving this mess.   !st:  called Kaiser to make an appt. w/ my Dr.- she is off today, will be back on Monday.  2nd: called Firearms Division to see if I could get a copy(s) of the Kaiser Letterhead w/ Dr. Tamura's signature, Kaiser's own medical release form, etc. before contacting the Kaiser Legal Dept. -cannot get a copy of the Letterhead, because apparently it's not an individual form per subscriber/member.  It is inclusive w/ other Kaiser members names/info on it.  I was told that Kaiser should be able to provided a copy.   HPD can provide one of the Kaiser's own clearance forms- just pick up at window.  What does not sit well w/me is that the "Medical Clearance Letter" MUST CONTAIN the exact wording as on the form provided by HPD:

Letter must state  "(individual's name) shall own, possess, or control any firearm or ammunition and has been medically documented to be no longer adversely affected by the addition, abuse, dependence, mental disease, disorder, or defect"

the HPD officer said, that has to be included, because it is in the law,  However, the Dr. can make a statement under that.  That, there is no history or medical record of ever having being diagnosed, or treated, or in treatment for any of the above conditions, which would preclude me from acquiring a firearm.

Called Kaiser Legal dept.- recept. took contact info.  At approx.10:48am Kaiser Legal Dept.(Michelle) returns call.  Don't know her position there(atty?), except she made sure I was CLEAR on the who, what, why & where!  After explaining to her the situation.  She said to call Dr. Tamura, because the legal dept. can not do anything.  They only, in this case represent the doctor(Dr. Tamura) and not the member.   

On June 10th,  I did call Dr. Tamura's office and left my contact info w/the receptionist there.  She said it was forwarded to him to call me back.  However, I have yet to hear from him.  After  that initial attempt to contact Dr. Tamura on, 10 June 2014 ,  I was advised/suggested to not make any contact w/ this Dr. at all,  since I have never met or been treated by him, nor is he my PCP.   Have to decide my next move!

Obamacare and the Surgeon General  has just taken your rights to aquire firearms through medical  a clearance
good job  !

Well, I have today off, ( Fri., 20 June 2014)  Today, would have been my permit pick up day, I had scheduled after the first initial HPD visit.  Would have cancelled taking off today.   However  thought to take advantage and try to make progress in resolving this mess.   !st:  called Kaiser to make an appt. w/ my Dr.- she is off today, will be back on Monday.  2nd: called Firearms Division to see if I could get a copy(s) of the Kaiser Letterhead w/ Dr. Tamura's signature, Kaiser's own medical release form, etc. before contacting the Kaiser Legal Dept. -cannot get a copy of the Letterhead, because apparently it's not an individual form per subscriber/member.  It is inclusive w/ other Kaiser members names/info on it.  I was told that Kaiser should be able to provided a copy.   HPD can provide one of the Kaiser's own clearance forms- just pick up at window.  What does not sit well w/me is that the "Medical Clearance Letter" MUST CONTAIN the exact wording as on the form provided by HPD:

Letter must state  "(individual's name) shall own, possess, or control any firearm or ammunition and has been medically documented to be no longer adversely affected by the addition, abuse, dependence, mental disease, disorder, or defect"

the HPD officer said, that has to be included, because it is in the law,  However, the Dr. can make a statement under that.  That, there is no history or medical record of ever having being diagnosed, or treated, or in treatment for any of the above conditions, which would preclude me from acquiring a firearm.

Called Kaiser Legal dept.- recept. took contact info.  At approx.10:48am Kaiser Legal Dept.(Michelle) returns call.  Don't know her position there(atty?), except she made sure I was CLEAR on the who, what, why & where!  After explaining to her the situation.  She said to call Dr. Tamura, because the legal dept. can not do anything.  They only, in this case represent the doctor(Dr. Tamura) and not the member.   

On June 10th,  I did call Dr. Tamura's office and left my contact info w/the receptionist there.  She said it was forwarded to him to call me back.  However, I have yet to hear from him.  After  that initial attempt to contact Dr. Tamura on, 10 June 2014 ,  I was advised/suggested to not make any contact w/ this Dr. at all,  since I have never met or been treated by him, nor is he my PCP.   Have to decide my next move!

The one thing I didn't see documented is the information HPD possesses that required them to request a clearance letter from Kaiser in the first place.  As I said before, this is a catch 22.  How can Kaiser clear you from never having been treated? 

If HPD is the office denying you, and they say they need a clearance letter, they must have some info that tells them they need that from the HMO.  I'd go back and ask them that.  If they can't answer, then it is their mistake, and I would then ask for a supervisor. 

HPD can't deny a permit unless they have a reason.  Find out what their supposed reason is. 

If the info is an error in the HPD records, you should try to get that resolved.  Asking you to prove you no longer need treatment you never needed is totally ridiculous!

This is like being asked, "Have you stopped beating your wife?"  You can't answer YES or NO without it being bad for you!

the letter that kaiser sent can be accessed by anyone that works at kaiser

it is my belief that the firearms form is sent to kaiser
and then the letter was mistakenly sent out denying you from the permit, with a doctors sig that you never saw
now kaiser doesn't want to own up to their mistake bc nobody really knows exactly what happened
it is a huge company, and miscommunications happen all the time.  I see this daily.
it just sucks that these people have to suffer for kaiser's bone head mistake.