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Educate me about AK-47 (Read 17363 times)

dustoff003

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2014, 12:47:56 PM »

Quote from: Bcspy on July 26, 2014, 12:12:49 PM
Saiga 12 or Vepr 12?

So you want an AK shotgun then?
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Bcspy

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2014, 01:09:06 PM »
If the price is right. I will perhaps get both. Buy once, cry once.
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Kingkeoni

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2014, 03:10:23 PM »
Quote from: Bcspy on July 26, 2014, 12:12:49 PM
Saiga 12 or Vepr 12?

Just get the VEPR 12, you won't regret it.
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

tundah

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2014, 04:02:17 PM »
I've got 3 converted Saiga rifles and a shotgun that I like, but would be more then willing to trade or sell for other commie block (or American) AKs for whatever favorable terms the Russian ban will bring. In other words, except for mystique Russian AK's = nothing special. I think even Kalashnikov himself said Bulgarians built the best AK's.
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GotFirearms?

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2014, 04:09:11 PM »
Ever thought of getting a Polytech
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tundah

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2014, 04:22:06 PM »
Quote from: GotFirearms? on July 27, 2014, 04:09:11 PM
Ever thought of getting a Polytech

Who, me? Sure
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Bunker

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2014, 05:08:17 PM »
Kinda late but this was a MUST for true AK enthusiasts and a hell of a deal a few weeks ago, even if you don't like the caliber. Of course now these are selling on GB for inflated prices (see second link $2K) and they will continue to go up.

http://www.royaltigerimports.com/product-p/vepr0002.htm

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=431393905
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GotFirearms?

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2014, 05:19:47 PM »
Quote from: tundah on July 27, 2014, 04:22:06 PM
Who, me? Sure

Hahaha yeah and also the OP
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Bunker

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2014, 05:25:05 PM »
Quote from: GotFirearms? on July 27, 2014, 04:09:11 PM
Ever thought of getting a Polytech
I don't think anyone would ever fault anyone for owning a Polytech...they are an excellent quality AK. Here is one of my pre-ban Polytech P47 Legend series for reference, with ZERO American parts.

NIB Poly Technologies (POLYTECH) AK-47S Legend, manufactured at Shenzhen State Arsenal (316) and imported by Keng’s Imports in 12-1988, sold to PTK International Inc. (Polytech’s Subsidiary) on 3/17/1989, and resold shortly after for domestic sale.


« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 06:17:05 PM by Bunker »
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Kingkeoni

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2014, 08:27:38 PM »
Quote from: Bunker on July 27, 2014, 05:25:05 PM
I don't think anyone would ever fault anyone for owning a Polytech...they are an excellent quality AK. Here is one of my pre-ban Polytech P47 Legend series for reference, with ZERO American parts.

Show off  :worship:
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

BigBlue

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2014, 11:14:50 PM »
Quote from: Bunker on July 27, 2014, 05:08:17 PM
Kinda late but this was a MUST for true AK enthusiasts and a hell of a deal a few weeks ago, even if you don't like the caliber. Of course now these are selling on GB for inflated prices (see second link $2K) and they will continue to go up.

http://www.royaltigerimports.com/product-p/vepr0002.htm

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=431393905

I'm a bit skeptical that Russian AK's will maintain a massive premium over non-Russian in the long run. They certainly won't come down to pre-ban prices, but at the end of the day you can still buy perfectly good (if not better) AK's, that still have cool Cold War heritage (Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, etc). Right now things have gone crazy, but that'll lead to more non-Russian AKs being imported, which will bring prices down (elastic supply response to demand, economics 101).

Look at this way.. Joe Shooter wants to own an AK so he can blast cheap ammo at the range.. why would he pay $2k for a Russian one when he can get a functional equivalent for $1k? I can see paying double digit percentage premiums (e.g. $1300 vs $1000 for a 'cool factor'), but $3k? $4k? It's going to cap out at some point.

The other thing is - there are a ton of these things out there. I don't know current numbers but back in 2012, 30% of Izhevsk's AK's were going to the US. That's more than 20,000 rifles/year and firearms are most definitely durable goods. For the average shooter.. how many AKs do they really need or want? Nothing wrong with collecting firearms, but unless you're a serious AK enthusiast, once you have 1 or 2 that's probably it.

Or I'm totally full of shit and they'll spiral up in price. It's like predicting stocks, nobody really knows. Nothing wrong with paying a premium for it to be Russian but I wouldn't go wallet-crazy.
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Bunker

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2014, 08:57:03 AM »
Quote from: BigBlue on July 27, 2014, 11:14:50 PM
I'm a bit skeptical that Russian AK's will maintain a massive premium over non-Russian in the long run. They certainly won't come down to pre-ban prices, but at the end of the day you can still buy perfectly good (if not better) AK's, that still have cool Cold War heritage (Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, etc). Right now things have gone crazy, but that'll lead to more non-Russian AKs being imported, which will bring prices down (elastic supply response to demand, economics 101). Vintage Russian AK-47s (Type 1 [1947-1949], Type 2 [1949-1953/54], Type 3 [1953/54-1959]) or true AKMs (1959-1977) are very high in demand and aren’t cheap when they do surface…they were never imported as complete rifles. True AK enthusiasts will spend literally years to obtain all the correct factory parts in the correct time period for that specific rifle. I’m not referring to all the modern stuff (post 1977). A vintage Russian AK/AKM with the correct factory parts with all the original proofs and time period correct will always be high in demand and will only increase in value over time without any doubt. Pics below of Russian Type 1, 2, and 3 AK-47s.





Look at this way.. Joe Shooter wants to own an AK so he can blast cheap ammo at the range.. why would he pay $2k for a Russian one when he can get a functional equivalent for $1k? I can see paying double digit percentage premiums (e.g. $1300 vs $1000 for a 'cool factor'), but $3k? $4k? It's going to cap out at some point. Joe shooter who just wants a reliable, run of the mill AK would do just as you said. This type of individual is not an AK enthusiast or collector. Nothing wrong with that but there is a very distinct difference and completely different market for a true AK enthusiast and/or collector.

The other thing is - there are a ton of these things out there. I don't know current numbers but back in 2012, 30% of Izhevsk's AK's were going to the US. That's more than 20,000 rifles/year and firearms are most definitely durable goods. For the average shooter.. how many AKs do they really need or want? Nothing wrong with collecting firearms, but unless you're a serious AK enthusiast, once you have 1 or 2 that's probably it. I certainly wouldn't say there is a ton of this particular VEPR IV referenced in the link out there. I will quote arguably the most knowledgeable AK expert in the U.S., and when he stated this the price was $995.00. “Can you really find another rifle on the market that packs this much Soviet-style factory-built goodness to waste your hard-earned money on? I frankly doubt it. We used to spend almost this much just for an RPK74M stockset and hardware, in fact I spent almost $3K on the last RPK-74M I built. This being basically a Soviet RPK-74M built by the factory on an original factory receiver, with those cool deep spot welds and tons of Soviet style proofs in all the right locations.” BTW this statement was prior to Obama’s EO banning these rifles.

Or I'm totally full of shit and they'll spiral up in price. It's like predicting stocks, nobody really knows. Nothing wrong with paying a premium for it to be Russian but I wouldn't go wallet-crazy.

Just as FYI…VEPR IV owned by a true AK enthusiast. Again the difference between a true AK enthusiast and just Joe Shooter just wanting a run of the mill AK.

Fitted with 5.45 mag and Kashtan scope.






Added the correct rear sight leaf.


Military stock with silver proofs and textured finish.




This is the correct version of 1P78 mount for an RPK-74M type rifle (it's the same as used on the 1P78-2 RPK-74M sight) and provides essentially the same head and eye relief spacing as an 1P29, but slightly shorter and a lot more advanced. 2.8x magnification with a tritium-illuminated 700m rangefinding choke-type reticle calibrated in 5.45mm. It works fine with 5.56 for the sub-300 yard ranges i'll be shooting at, and truly makes an awesome squad auto optic.


Late pattern drop case looks good with these black rifles, and according to the Soviet manuals this pattern of case was designed to be used with the folders. They also work great for any fixed stock RPK, too.


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BigBlue

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2014, 11:40:36 AM »
Great guns you got there.

Collectors of contemporary AKs likely are the worst off with these sanctions. Even among collectors though, there is price-sensitivity.

Ironically, if cheap foreign 7.62 & 5.45 was banned, that would likely bring prices of weapons down since I imagine many people would start to sell them off or stop buying them up as much.
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Rocky

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2014, 01:15:53 PM »
Though I don't own an AK but enjoy shooting them (even the crappy ones) it's more than the Kali's and Saiga's themsleves.
If I may quote sitk,

"an executive order issued on the same date July 16 bans importation of Izmash and Saiga products Dept Treasury Ukraine - related Sanctions 13662 Exec Order list
This starts a serious domino effect and can easily lead to more restrictions Obamas-latest-executive-order-slapping-russia-with-sanctions NRA-ILA-import-of-kalashnikov-concern-saiga-aks-banned-by-executive-order

   All of this was already brought up years ago as a warning on my website, advising potential buyers to not go too far into Saiga shotguns/rifles and inevitable projects.
Now, original mags and spare parts (many of which were already tough to find) may progress to scalping prices and when complying with Sec 922 many will realize that  procuring any non-imported, US mfg-required spare parts will prove to be too costly.

   Saiga-Conversion-Parts  and notes remind that additional US made parts are needed. Imported calibers, especially 7.62x39, has already been bought up and cleaned out from dealer distributors. Inevitable rising of prices will be seen in upcoming months and those who didn't heed my warnings to stock up when everything was available will pay higher prices. Those who listened to me from 9/2011 and avoided the futile waste of money to customize/spiff up AK rifles and shotguns should be comfortable as they secured more important spare parts, mags and ammo instead of optics and mounts and gadgets for guns that will never shoot, handle or perform like an AR15.

   If you don't have spare parts, magazines and a comfortable supply of ammo a gun is useless. Mags-guns-ammo frenzy has begun, don't get caught in it."

http://www.kaneohegs.com/index.htm

Long live the SBBR ! :worship:
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new guy

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2014, 06:04:15 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 10:40:25 PM by new guy »
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hvybarrels

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2014, 08:54:41 PM »
Quote from: Rocky on July 28, 2014, 01:15:53 PM


   Those who listened to me from 9/2011 and avoided the futile waste of money to customize/spiff up AK rifles and shotguns should be comfortable as they secured more important spare parts, mags and ammo instead of optics and mounts and gadgets for guns that will never shoot, handle or perform like an AR15.


http://www.kaneohegs.com/index.htm

In other words, you should have bought one of his core15 lowers and built a budget gun, only to find out it's suitable for shooting cans and that to make an AR platform run as reliably as a Russian AK you basically have to spend $2k and carry a bunch of extra parts wherever you go.
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Sharing is caring, but forced redistribution is communism.

Bunker

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2014, 09:10:32 PM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on July 26, 2014, 03:10:23 PM
Just get the VEPR 12, you won't regret it.
Yeah but check out this latest shit I just seen today. :>:(

Centerfire Systems was selling VEPR 12's last month for $799. After Obama's EO the price jumped up to $949. And now check this out....a new bastardized version being offered by Centerfire as of today for $849. http://www.centerfiresystems.com/vepr-12fs-02.aspx

BACKORDERS ARE BEING ACCEPTED. WE EXPECT TO RECEIVE THESE GUNS BY AUG. 1. Vepr 12GA Semi Auto Shotgun with NON-FOLDING Skeletal Stock (folding mechanism has been removed). The pictures above are a representation of the shotgun but are actually of the Vepr 12 with the stock welded open. This gun WILL NOT have a welded open stock, but rather a skeletal stock with the folding mechanism removed. We have not received these guns yet, therefore we cannot show an exact picture of how the stock is attached.

I wonder how they remove the folding mechanism and what will the stock end up being?

And then someone dug this up:
"The Vepr-12 is exported world wide. Ownership in Russia requires only a Smoothbore-gun license. Due to Russian law, domestic and most export versions of the shotgun are equipped with a disconnector that will render the gun unable to fire while the stock is folded. The shotgun is also imported into the United States. However, BATFE import regulations mandate that the accompanying magazines hold no more than 5 rounds, and the folding stock (on applicable variants) be welded in the open position."
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Bcspy

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2014, 09:12:37 PM »
Thanks guys for your knowledge.  I decided first to purchased a LegionUsa Saiga-12 IZSL-433A, Vepr 12 was out of stock. I hope it comes in by next week.  I will be traveling to the mainland next week to finalize the adoption process.  I hope I have time to will visit several lgs and see what they have available.  I might get lucky and find a good deal.
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hvybarrels

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2014, 10:32:01 PM »
good call. congratulations!
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Sharing is caring, but forced redistribution is communism.

Rocky

Re: Educate me about AK-47
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2014, 09:25:18 AM »
Quote from: hvybarrels on July 28, 2014, 08:54:41 PM
In other words, you should have bought one of his core15 lowers and built a budget gun, only to find out it's suitable for shooting cans and that to make an AR platform run as reliably as a Russian AK you basically have to spend $2k and carry a bunch of extra parts wherever you go.

Debatable. :popcorn:
Been shooting my AR (under $1,500 including upgraded trigger, grip, iron sights and aimpoint) for 4 years and the first required repair (last weekend) was for primer stuck in BCG Key (replacement cost of $6.99).
(please see my post at 5.56 vs .223 regarding ammom selection for clarification).
Wifey's had the same rig for 2 yrs with no issues
Yes, we do keep extra firing pin, roller pin, ejector  and spring in the handle JIC. :geekdanc:


The discussion was about AK's.
The availability of such as well as parts for same were relevant to topic.
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“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt
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