Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige? (Read 24013 times)

punaperson

Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« on: October 21, 2014, 07:24:26 AM »
On the basis of Second Amendment issues, why should anyone vote for either Aiona or Ige? Is "the lesser of two evils" the only justification? (The Libertarian candidate "should" support full implementation of the Second Amendment, but he (also) has not responded to my email requests for his positions on those issues.)

In another world, far far away, we have candidates meeting potential voter constituents in public while open-carrying. Where are the candidates in Hawaii that publicly support "Constitutional Carry"?



Robert Forsythe (left), a candidate for state representative in Dsitrict 8, greets Moe Belanger of Boscawen as he talks to residents at the Boscawen Transfer Station on Saturday, Oct. 18, 2014. Forsythe, who is pro-Second Amendment, prominently wore his gun on his hip during the meet and greet. "I've alread had a couple people say, 'I like what you're carrying,' " he said.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/community/town-by-town/dunbarton/13958509-95/in-nh-candidates-pushing-for-constitutional-carry

eyeeatingfish

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2014, 11:15:42 AM »
Are you a single issue voter? There are a lot of people who will pick a candidate based on their stance on a single issue. I will vote for Aiona for his positions as a whole, not a single issue. I realize that no candidate (unless I run for office) will share my views on everything, there will never be a perfect candidate. Aiona might not be the best pro gun cadidate but he has a much much better chance at winning than the libertarian. So you have to weigh the risks. Would you rather vote for the guy you most prefer but probably wont win and risk the least favorite candidate winning or vote for the guy who has a better chance at winning but doesn't quite meet all your desired issue stances?
I think that with Aiona you might not get more gun rights but you probably wont get less. However with Ige you might be more apt to lose some rights.

That being said I don't think the second ammendment seems like a hot issue in Hawaii, it doesn't seem like one of the top priorities here so I don't think politicians bother to take a strong stance. Some do take strong anti gun stances but thankfully it is not a majority proposing anti gun laws.

punaperson

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2014, 12:25:30 PM »
Are you a single issue voter? There are a lot of people who will pick a candidate based on their stance on a single issue. I will vote for Aiona for his positions as a whole, not a single issue. I realize that no candidate (unless I run for office) will share my views on everything, there will never be a perfect candidate. Aiona might not be the best pro gun cadidate but he has a much much better chance at winning than the libertarian. So you have to weigh the risks. Would you rather vote for the guy you most prefer but probably wont win and risk the least favorite candidate winning or vote for the guy who has a better chance at winning but doesn't quite meet all your desired issue stances?

I'm not a "single issue" voter, unless you consider liberty, i.e. freedom from government interference in areas of my life that are none of their business, to be a single issue. This would rule out all the Democrats, and almost all of the Republicans and Independents. It's not a question of "doesn't quite meet all your desired issue stances", but rather doesn't have a f-ing clue about "small government"... never saw a law extending government intervention/control they didn't like. Two very different examples. Example 1: "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is literally derided by the mainstream candidates despite taking an oath of office to support both the U.S. and Hawaii state constitutions, both of which use those exact words. Example 2: My home has no central heating nor air conditioning, yet the building code requires me to build with double-glazed thermally insulated windows. Yet despite their claims that this law is for "energy conservation", they build enormous government structures with huge rooms, some of which include very high ceilings (if you ever have to go to court, this will subconsciously impress upon the fact that the government has unlimited resources compared to you and can pretty much do whatever they want) thus creating massive waste of energy to cool those structures. I'd bet that the energy cost of cooling one of those rooms for ONE DAY exceeds my ANNUAL energy cost for rarely running a fan for twenty minutes.  I hate hypocrites.

I think that with Aiona you might not get more gun rights but you probably wont get less. However with Ige you might be more apt to lose some rights.

Really? What do you know that NRA-ILA and HRA don't? They have rated, respectively, Aiona C+/C, and Ige B/A. Hanneman gets a B from HRA and no rating from NRA-ILA. Libertarian Jeff Davis gets no rating from either. It's sad, and totally ridiculous to me, that someone (Ige) who opposes CCW and supports full registration (including "unusable" and "unserviceable" firearms) and the 14-20 day "waiting period" (even if you just bought a gun yesterday and completed the "background check" 24 hours earlier), among other preposterous and unconstitutional Hawaii laws, etc., would get even a "B" rating, much less an "A". That bar has been set not just "low", but in a damn deep hole. What'd Stalin get, an A+?

That being said I don't think the second ammendment seems like a hot issue in Hawaii, it doesn't seem like one of the top priorities here so I don't think politicians bother to take a strong stance. Some do take strong anti gun stances but thankfully it is not a majority proposing anti gun laws.

Yeah, clearly they don't care. We know that. And the vast majorityof legislators DO support anti-gun laws, that's why this is one of the states with the strictest gun laws and the only other venue besides Washington, D.C. that has virtually no CCW "may issue" license holders. You want me to vote for one of these (WARNING: judgmental language ahead) clowns who will support the status quo or make things even worse?

causa mortis

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2014, 12:29:12 PM »
Vote Iona. At the end of the day, Ige is still a Democrat. No matter how friendly Ige is to the 2a, I'm worried about continuing the one party Democrat control of the state. The modern Democrat party is nothing more than a hard left Socialist/Marxist entity. I fucking hate Socialists and Marxists, so I'll vote for those candidates that will, in theory, be at least in the center or right of center. American leftism equals incremental totalitarianism.

dafrtknocker

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2014, 06:38:28 PM »
Ask yourself who would Veto any Anti- 2A legislation , I don't see Ige letting down the Democratic Party.

edster48

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2014, 07:01:57 PM »
I'll probably vote for Aiona.
Not because I feel he represents everything I look for in a candidate, but because as punaperson pointed out, there is a distinct lack of options. A vote for Ige would keep the Democratic stranglehold firmly in place, and I would like to see them shaken up.

 I realize it will more than likely accomplish nothing, much like flipping off the weather, but at least I can feel like I've voiced my displeasure with the current regime. Maybe there might be some miniscule chance of change.

Or not.
 Remember Aiona was once a judge in our incredibly ineffective judicial system.

The Libertarian Party has some very appealing points in their favor, such as their wish to adhere to the Constitution and desire for smaller government and getting it out of our lives and our pockets. However, especially in regards to the military, some of their ideas are still a little bit over the top for me.

So. Once again we are left with a choice..........Green turd or Brown turd

Neither of which will bring our government back to what it should be. The real question is what do we do about it?
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2014, 07:28:13 PM »


My mistake, I thought Aiona had received a better rating than Ige, but yeah I do get the questionability of some of the ratings.
I personally have no problem voting 3rd party and have done it before.

I am at least happy that those 3 recently proposed gun laws didn't make it anywhere. It could have gotten worse but luckily it didn't.

When I said it doesn't seem to be a hot issue I meant both for politicians and for voters. I think Hawaii just doesn't have a very large pro gun crowd that would influence the politicians.

Kimo772

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 10:46:52 AM »
A vote for Ige is a vote for gun control...he's a dem.  He supports Schatz folks...fact.

punaperson

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 03:19:14 PM »
The only option I would feel really good about voting in this race would be "NONE OF THE ABOVE". Of course in Hawaii we have no recall, no referendum, and no initiative (bills introduced by Senator Slom have never been heard)... so the last thing that is going to happen is for there to be a realistic option wherein the politicians could see a legally-binding statement from the electorate that the politicians (almost) ALL suck.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 04:10:07 PM »
The only option I would feel really good about voting in this race would be "NONE OF THE ABOVE". Of course in Hawaii we have no recall, no referendum, and no initiative (bills introduced by Senator Slom have never been heard)... so the last thing that is going to happen is for there to be a realistic option wherein the politicians could see a legally-binding statement from the electorate that the politicians (almost) ALL suck.

Good point, even if we got the perfect candidate for governor he cant approve a law unless it first passes the legislature. We often focus on the head leader when sometimes they fault can lie with out representatives.

lippy laroux

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 05:49:26 PM »
I guess you can vote to have your guns confiscated this term or wait for a few years...

Heavies

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 09:02:48 PM »
Thankfully and greatfully, In my district all the choices where clear cut.  All that I voted for are 2a supporters and coincidentally Republicans.  Only choice that I needed to make was ige or duke.  Even though duke has been rated C, I have no problms voting for the republican. The democrats have been ruining this state for over 50 years, and with some help from above opening the eyes of those brainwashed plantation mentality people out there,  maybe this place can get turned around from this liberal utopia, in which our hard working and shrinking middle class bear the burden supporting those who care not to make something of themselves and expect handouts.   

I am sick of it...  hopefully many more are too. Turn it around and stop nit picking candidates.  Big picture, check it out.

zippz

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 10:40:33 PM »
You guys are forgetting about the "other" option.  If you don't like the positions of the candidates or think the legislature is corrupt, then you should be running for office yourselves.  Then you can push your agenda.  Something I've been thinking about later in the future for myself.

punaperson

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2014, 07:24:37 AM »
Thankfully and greatfully, In my district all the choices where clear cut.  All that I voted for are 2a supporters and coincidentally Republicans.  Only choice that I needed to make was ige or duke.  Even though duke has been rated C, I have no problms voting for the republican. The democrats have been ruining this state for over 50 years, and with some help from above opening the eyes of those brainwashed plantation mentality people out there,  maybe this place can get turned around from this liberal utopia, in which our hard working and shrinking middle class bear the burden supporting those who care not to make something of themselves and expect handouts.   

I am sick of it...  hopefully many more are too. Turn it around and stop nit picking candidates.  Big picture, check it out.
I suspect there are several others besides you who are "sick of it". I'm REALLY sick of it. My "problem" is that I don't see Aiona or Ige or Hanneman offering any real solutions to many problems, nor supporting civil liberties. I see them offering (bullshit) platitudes ("trust, respect and balance", "moving forward together", "think independently, come home to the middle"), yet none of them make available serious detailed position papers on any but a couple of issues, and even those are far too vague to be able to determine what their actual policy would entail. None of them even mention the issue of Second Amendment rights, nor will any of them respond to email or phone calls asking them to publicly reveal their positions on related issues such as "shall issue" CCW (firearms or other banned tools) or handgun magazine capacity limits, etc. All of them support squelching personal freedom and liberty in one form or another. I could not, in good conscience, vote for anyone who supports a policy that results in one more person being arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and/or being imprisoned for possessing and/or using cannabis. I won't get into the lengthy arguments and data, but any politician whose policies allows one single person to suffer the legal consequences of cannabis possession while condoning the legality of alcohol is full of shit and either a liar, an ignoramus, or beholden to special interests (prison industrial complex, law enforcement unions, etc.), or all three. And the list goes on: [url=http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/28/vote-libertarian-to-stop-the-next-bipart/]http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/28/vote-libertarian-to-stop-the-next-bipart/[/url]

Anyone interested in personal liberty and freedom could not vote for any of the three above candidates unless they buy into the "lesser of evils" argument. Let's not support ANY evil.

punaperson

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2014, 07:39:33 AM »
You guys are forgetting about the "other" option.  If you don't like the positions of the candidates or think the legislature is corrupt, then you should be running for office yourselves.  Then you can push your agenda.  Something I've been thinking about later in the future for myself.
Good luck with that. How about term limits in Hawaii? Or initiative? Or referendum? Or recall? What are Hawaii politicians so afraid "the people" will do? I'd add that the term limits should include a limitation on the total years of "public service" as an elected official... not just be limited to one particular office. No more "lifers" hopping from one public payroll office to the next. I'd suggest 8 years as more than enough time for an individual to complete his civic duty as an elected public servant.

The incumbents have outrageous advantages (even if they are only the lesser of two evils). John Stossel has his say:

http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/29/no-matter-how-angry-the-voters-incumbent

Excerpt:

This Is How Incumbent Politicians Game the System to Ensure Their Own Re-Election

No matter how angry the voters, incumbents always win

I'm told that the public is "angry" at today's politicians. Eighty-two percent disapprove of the job Congress is doing. So will Tuesday's election bring a big shakeup?

No. Congressional reelection rates never drop below 85 percent.

The last big "wave" election was 1994, when Democrats lost control of both houses. The media called it a "revolution," and the late Peter Jennings from ABC likened Americans to 2-year-olds throwing a tantrum.

Even that year, the reelection rate was 90 percent.

Heavies

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2014, 08:55:43 AM »
I suspect there are several others besides you who are "sick of it". I'm REALLY sick of it. My "problem" is that I don't see Aiona or Ige or Hanneman offering any real solutions to many problems, nor supporting civil liberties. I see them offering (bullshit) platitudes ("trust, respect and balance", "moving forward together", "think independently, come home to the middle"), yet none of them make available serious detailed position papers on any but a couple of issues, and even those are far too vague to be able to determine what their actual policy would entail. None of them even mention the issue of Second Amendment rights, nor will any of them respond to email or phone calls asking them to publicly reveal their positions on related issues such as "shall issue" CCW (firearms or other banned tools) or handgun magazine capacity limits, etc. All of them support squelching personal freedom and liberty in one form or another. I could not, in good conscience, vote for anyone who supports a policy that results in one more person being arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and/or being imprisoned for possessing and/or using cannabis. I won't get into the lengthy arguments and data, but any politician whose policies allows one single person to suffer the legal consequences of cannabis possession while condoning the legality of alcohol is full of shit and either a liar, an ignoramus, or beholden to special interests (prison industrial complex, law enforcement unions, etc.), or all three. And the list goes on: [url=http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/28/vote-libertarian-to-stop-the-next-bipart/]http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/28/vote-libertarian-to-stop-the-next-bipart/[/url]

Anyone interested in personal liberty and freedom could not vote for any of the three above candidates unless they buy into the "lesser of evils" argument. Let's not support ANY evil.

If you are suggesting not voting for anyone then you are a part of the problem, not the solution. 

Life will always give you choices, nearly all the time these choices are not going to be the best for all situations.  Life will not get you a total solution for every single issue that you hold dear.  You must make a choice that seems best for your ideals, and even though you may not get there in one big step, you can get there in small steps at a time.  It is very rare that you can achieve all huge goals at once, and many think it is impossible, however, making these small steps is the key to moving in the right direction.  This is one of the big reasons that the anti crowd is sucsessful, they slowly methodically chip at your rights, it is high time we start chipping back....  and if it takes electing a moderate righty, then at lease we are moving in the right direction.

mauidog

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2014, 09:08:46 AM »
If you are suggesting not voting for anyone then you are a part of the problem, not the solution. 

Life will always give you choices, nearly all the time these choices are not going to be the best for all situations.  Life will not get you a total solution for every single issue that you hold dear.  You must make a choice that seems best for your ideals, and even though you may not get there in one big step, you can get there in small steps at a time.  It is very rare that you can achieve all huge goals at once, and many think it is impossible, however, making these small steps is the key to moving in the right direction.  This is one of the big reasons that the anti crowd is sucsessful, they slowly methodically chip at your rights, it is high time we start chipping back....  and if it takes electing a moderate righty, then at lease we are moving in the right direction.

As a follow-on to HiCarry's sentiment  ---  If you want to make a statement of how displeased you are with the current status quo, then always vote for the challenger.  If the incumbents fear losing their jobs after one term, maybe they will do their jobs instead of spending most of their time fund raising and campaigning.

That requires more people being displeased with the job they did in office than those who are satisfied.  So, you may need to do more than cast your one vote.  You may find it necessary to try and convince other voters to agree with your assessment of the incumbent's performance. 

That's called getting involved.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

punaperson

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2014, 09:30:20 AM »
If you are suggesting not voting for anyone then you are a part of the problem, not the solution. 

There is a Libertarian candidate on the ballot for governor. He is the candidate most amenable to all the issues involving personal liberty and freedom and minimizing state intervention in all personal matters. I'd also like to see "none of the above" as a ballot option for each office or issue.

Life will always give you choices, nearly all the time these choices are not going to be the best for all situations.  Life will not get you a total solution for every single issue that you hold dear.  You must make a choice that seems best for your ideals, and even though you may not get there in one big step, you can get there in small steps at a time.  It is very rare that you can achieve all huge goals at once, and many think it is impossible, however, making these small steps is the key to moving in the right direction.  This is one of the big reasons that the anti crowd is sucsessful, they slowly methodically chip at your rights, it is high time we start chipping back....  and if it takes electing a moderate righty, then at lease we are moving in the right direction.

Please name three specific legislative proposals by Aiona (or Ige or Hanneman) that prove to you that "we are moving in the right direction". "Trust, respect and balance" doesn't count (as that meaningless doublespeak slogan is total bullshit. How could anyone respect, let alone trust someone who parrots such tripe?).

Heavies

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2014, 06:51:47 PM »
While I would agree that a libertarian would be great, I highly doubt he would get elected. There is just not enough support. A better move would be to get a more right leaning individual in office, chip right for a change. Or let the left just keep chipping left.  Up to you.

Jl808

Re: Why should I vote for EITHER Aiona or Ige?
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2014, 07:12:13 PM »

Big govt  <----- D --- R ---- L ----->  small govt

We are at D. Getting to R is easier than L.
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

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