I believe the basis for that decision was one of trade offs. Since we already have registration of all firearms, it really wasn't a matter of "Why HRA supports registration of firearms?" We don't. So support of the bill didn't change anything in regards to the registration process. Except, it provided an couple of extra days in which to register your firearms (from 3 to 5).

It's also a matter of political capital. Where does the organization spend its political capital and other limited resources? Should HRA push for, and therefore expend the limited resources on concealed carry when it never even makes it to a committee hearing? What, exactly would that accomplish? And, just like your personal budget, if we spend that capital on one issue, it means it isn't available for another one and right now, for a variety of reasons, our budget isn't very big. Those are the cold, hard facts, the harsh realities of the situation. If you want to change it, there are three basic ways you can go about it.

First, establish your own advocacy organization.
Second, you can join HRA and participate in the process, both by involving yourself in the leadership process and the day to day mundane and routine aspects of running such an organization.
Third, get elected and change the process from the inside.

So, whatcha gonna do? It isn't only HRA that needs to "show that they mean business" or that they aren't "...sunshine patriot, wannabe tactical operator organizations..." who talk big but fail to walk the talk.

Are those really the only three choices? Says who? Or are you saying that because HRA has cozied up to certain legislators to the point where they can mutually laugh together out loud in a public legislative committee hearing about the fact that certain people have had the gall to submit testimony opposing two bills that restrict Constitutionally-guaranteed rights that they have some kind of moral or political gravitas that merits our support?

Garnering two extra days before they infringe on our rights is a "trade off"? Wow, if you can get the waiting period down to 12 days this place'll just like Arizona for gun rights.

"Trade offs", "political capital", etc.  You sound like Chamberlain re Hitler. How much worse would things have been had Chamberlain said "no"? Or Hawaii's only elected Republican governor adamantly defending the RKBA in her fiery statement: "I believe Hawaii’s gun safety laws are adequate to protect public safety. I will not support any additional restrictions on the right to bear arms." Well, that was comforting. Nothing like drawing a line in the sand upholding Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.

Are those really the only three choices? Says who? Or are you saying that because HRA has cozied up to certain legislators to the point where they can mutually laugh together out loud in a public legislative committee hearing about the fact that certain people have had the gall to submit testimony opposing two bills that restrict Constitutionally-guaranteed rights that they have some kind of moral or political gravitas that merits our support?

Garnering two extra days before they infringe on our rights is a "trade off"? Wow, if you can get the waiting period down to 12 days this place'll just like Arizona for gun rights.

"Trade offs", "political capital", etc.  You sound like Chamberlain re Hitler. How much worse would things have been had Chamberlain said "no"? Or Hawaii's only elected Republican governor adamantly defending the RKBA in her fiery statement: "I believe Hawaii’s gun safety laws are adequate to protect public safety. I will not support any additional restrictions on the right to bear arms." Well, that was comforting. Nothing like drawing a line in the sand upholding Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.

Well, there may be more....why don't you tell everyone what they are and then, based on your assessment of the possibilities, why don't you start/form an organization that meets the very stringent requirements you feel are necessary.
I look forward to you and your organization drawing that line in the sand. I'm sure you will do well. We'll see you at the legislature.

And, if you think Lingle was Pro-2A based on that statement, you are buying into a lot of hot air and false promises that are so very prominent in politics. Just saying.....

Well, there may be more....why don't you tell everyone what they are and then, based on your assessment of the possibilities, why don't you start/form an organization that meets the very stringent requirements you feel are necessary.
I look forward to you and your organization drawing that line in the sand. I'm sure you will do well. We'll see you at the legislature.

Gun Owners of America has policy positions that are more in line with my view. I think that perhaps those who want to "do well" with their "political capital" and "trade offs" at the legislature have a, uh, "different" view of things. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

And, if you think Lingle was Pro-2A based on that statement, you are buying into a lot of hot air and false promises that are so very prominent in politics. Just saying.....

Uh, no. That (Lingle) was an example of the half-baked wishy-washy "political capital trade off" kind of RKBA claim that would see the mandatory registration of "unusable, unserviceable" firearms deadline extended from 3 to 5 days as a "victory" of some sort for Second Amendment rights. And for further clarification, no, I don't think Chamberlain "appeasing" Hitler with Czechoslovakia in order to announce "peace for our time" was a good thing either. Just sayin'...

  I always wanted to do that to myself...

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Well, there may be more....why don't you tell everyone what they are and then, based on your assessment of the possibilities, why don't you start/form an organization that meets the very stringent requirements you feel are necessary.
I look forward to you and your organization drawing that line in the sand. I'm sure you will do well. We'll see you at the legislature.

Gun Owners of America has policy positions that are more in line with my view. I think that perhaps those who want to "do well" with their "political capital" and "trade offs" at the legislature have a, uh, "different" view of things. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

And, if you think Lingle was Pro-2A based on that statement, you are buying into a lot of hot air and false promises that are so very prominent in politics. Just saying.....

Uh, no. That (Lingle) was an example of the half-baked wishy-washy "political capital trade off" kind of RKBA claim that would see the mandatory registration of "unusable, unserviceable" firearms deadline extended from 3 to 5 days as a "victory" of some sort for Second Amendment rights. And for further clarification, no, I don't think Chamberlain "appeasing" Hitler with Czechoslovakia in order to announce "peace for our time" was a good thing either. Just sayin'...

  I always wanted to do that to myself...

Great! I'll look forward to seeing you as the head of the Hawaii chapter of GOA. See you at the legislature with your new title and your super effective advocacy group.

Great! I'll look forward to seeing you as the head of the Hawaii chapter of GOA. See you at the legislature with your new title and your super effective advocacy group.

I'm not kidding myself. I know that no one could be as super effective as HRA. I see all the proof I need in the Brady Campaign's ranking of Hawaii as only in 7th place for "Strongest Gun Laws" (tied with New York and Massachusetts for 5th with B+ grade, but got docked a couple of points for, get this, allowing weapons on campus and in houses of worship. I guess that would be all those people with CCW licenses taking them to those locations. Let's hear for the Brady Scoring System!).

I'm not kidding myself. I know that no one could be as super effective as HRA. I see all the proof I need in the Brady Campaign's ranking of Hawaii as only in 7th place for "Strongest Gun Laws" (tied with New York and Massachusetts for 5th with B+ grade, but got docked a couple of points for, get this, allowing weapons on campus and in houses of worship. I guess that would be all those people with CCW licenses taking them to those locations. Let's hear for the Brady Scoring System!).

Yep, Hawaii has a long way to go before it can earn a lower score from the Brady Group. And yes, HRA isn't as effective as it could be, mainly because of folks like yourself. You bitch and moan about HRA not being effective, yet do you actually get up off your ass and from behind your keyboard and do SOMETHING? No. You just like to hear yourself talk stink about those folks that actually do try to do something. Yeah, you may not like the tact the organization takes, but YOU could change that, right. But oh no, that would take some effort and energy and require you work collaboratively and collectively with others instead of hiding behind your keyboard criticizing everybody else.

Or wait, maybe you could start your own advocacy organization and obviously do so much better than HRA....but wait, you'd still have to get up off your lazy ass and do something besides complain....

So, the bottom line is: unless you are actually willing to stand up and put some effort into all this you are nothing more than the "...sunshine patriot, wannabe tactical operator..." you rail against in another post.

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One of the main reasons why I didn't join HRA was because the last person I talked to had the same shitty attitude about me not doing my part because I wasn't joining HRA, blah blah blah...

Chill the the fuck out. Many people on this forum still haven't joined HRA, and nothing has really changed for the better or worse; it still is the way it has been for quite some time.


Actually, that was me.

And I'm pretty sure that I was the one who had the common sense to contact the NRA-ILA representative for Hawaii during the knudsen wars, while the majority of the firearms community wanted to waste their time signing petitions and sending nasty emails that were bound to hurt someones feelings.  I was also the one who communicated directly with said representative, and provided him with information and evidence to support a lawsuit that the NRA was going to file against the state, if in fact knudsen did get what he wanted for Christmas. Thankfully, it didn't need to escalate to that level, but nonetheless, I did my part, and yes: I did it without being a member of HRA or donating to the organization.

Oh please.....  So you saved the range all by yourself?  A shit ton of work went on behind the scenes that you have not clue about dude.  AND the HRA and concerned citizens, that put in the effort to petition their represntatives, was instrumental in the range NOT being shut down for good.  Maybe get off your high horse so you can see reality a little better.

Also to add.  If you are not a member of the HRA or other LOCAL rights groups that fight for our 2A rights, you are a part of the problem.  You think the politicians, that hold our rights hostage, give two shits about what one lone dude says about 2A?  brah you dreaming.  Only way is to have an organized effort, with respected representation, to sway these ding bats to see what is right. 

Some one asked about HRA Rally/Demo.

Last Rally of any size was over 25 years ago at the Capitol.

Several Hundred Men, Women and Kids showed up

That's the reason why gun laws are Not MORE Restrictive.

Hawaii had Thousands Less gun owners back then.

22+ years ago HRA had Rallys Against Rey Graulty.

Graulty Pissed off my Wife.  She PICKETTED his fund raiser along with other HRA members.

She was the Only 2A person interviewed on the TV news.

HRA helped Graulty Not get re-elected.

With all the New Black gun owners, are they willing to do what my Wife did 22 years ago?

You want a Rally?  You can do All the leg Work to get it going.

Make sure you get parking for us to park(I'm Disabled and don't walk too good)

arrange for buses to pick up and drop off the attendees.

Don't forget refreshment for women and kids attending.

Make sure there's First Aid available.

Don't forget to get the Proper Permits if on Private/Government property.

By being non members and keeping HRA membership low, you give the Anti 2A

Encouragement to go for More anti 2A laws.

Do the math, 1,000,000+ gun owners and 1,500+ HRA members.

Shows gun owners Don't really care for their Rights.

When the Wife retires in 4 years, if things stay the same,

We'll do the Davy Crockett thing,  Move to Texas or other 2a friendly climate.

Specifically, Full Auto with Suppressors, several hundreds acres, with 300 yard shooting range.

Already several of my friends have Moved to greener 2A pastures.

One of the main reasons why I didn't join HRA was because the last person I talked to had the same shitty attitude about me not doing my part because I wasn't joining HRA, blah blah blah...

Chill the the fuck out. Many people on this forum still haven't joined HRA, and nothing has really changed for the better or worse; it still is the way it has been for quite some time.


Actually, that was me.

And I'm pretty sure that I was the one who had the common sense to contact the NRA-ILA representative for Hawaii during the knudsen wars, while the majority of the firearms community wanted to waste their time signing petitions and sending nasty emails that were bound to hurt someones feelings.  I was also the one who communicated directly with said representative, and provided him with information and evidence to support a lawsuit that the NRA was going to file against the state, if in fact knudsen did get what he wanted for Christmas. Thankfully, it didn't need to escalate to that level, but nonetheless, I did my part, and yes: I did it without being a member of HRA or donating to the organization.

So, it's a shitty attitude if someone suggests that you stop flapping your gums and actually do something constructive? It's a shitty attitude when someone suggests that you enjoy the level of gun rights you have now because of what HRA has been able to keep from being passed in the past? It's a shitty attitude when someone suggests that you work with the organization attempting to represent Hawaii's gun owners instead of creating divisiveness and discord? It's a shitty attitude when, per your words, the "majority" of Hawaii's gun owners thought differently than you on how to solve a problem? So, pretty much anything you don't agree with is a shitty attitude?

And, had the NRA proceeded with it's lawsuit regarding the range issues, who do you think they would have worked with to formulate the legal strategy and gauge the gun-owning community's opinion? You? Dream on......

Do you belong to the NRA? 'Cause the last time I checked, they recommended every Hawaii NRA member join the HRA. Or, is that just another example of a shitty attitude?

The 2015 Legislative committees are now up.  I've updated the first post to link to the important 2015 committees.

Senate Committee on Judiciary and Labor (JDL)
http://capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=JDL&year=2015

House Committee on Judiciary (JUD)
http://capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=JUD&year=2015

Senate Committee on Ways and Means (WAM)
http://capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=WAM&year=2015

House Committee on Finance (FIN)
http://capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=FIN&year=2015

Senate Committee on Public Safety, Intergovernmental and Military Affairs (PSM)
http://capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=PSM&year=2015

House Committee on Public Safety (PBS)
http://capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=PBS&year=2015

Senate Committee on Health (HTH)
http://capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=HTH&year=2015

House Committee on Health (HLT)
http://capitol.hawaii.gov/committeepage.aspx?comm=HLT&year=2015

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I am a member of the HRA because I think the groups deserve credit for slowing down the efforts of the antigun legislators in Hawaii.

Q, to address your question, I can personally attest that I have seen the HRA working behind the scenes during the range closure.  I don't want to elaborate here but we can chat over lunch or something.

But at the same time, the HRA needs to change the language used and overall attitude towards prospective members in order to gain more membership.  I don't have hard numbers but I suspect that in some cases, a big deterrent for pro-2a people joining the HRA is the HRA itself.

If there is one thing I learned from being in business is this... don't insult your customers or potential customers.

At the same time, stop bashing those who are working to help you.

If we want things turned around in Hawaii, we need to stop fighting amongst ourselves and focus our efforts in fighting our real enemies instead.

Who said I saved it all by myself? Where was HRA when the mayor went to the range to discuss things with the media? Where was HRA when people were coordinating with C&C to have a group of volunteers come in and clean up the range with their own equipment and labor? While you guys where dicking around with your thumbs up your ass, people who are not even with HRA are actually doing their part to do things that will actually matter. So no, I did not save the range by myself as you ignorantly put it; but I did do my part while organizations like the HRA continue to compromise when they should be fighting.

And no, I and others who are not with HRA are not the problem; YOU and your overzealous fanatical members are the problem. Your hostile actions and words towards people who are on the fence about joining or don't want to join is precisely why no one wants to join, and why they talk so much shit about HRA.

You calling me fanatic....  lols 

Here's a spreadsheet rating the members of each key legislative committee.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1etFawwxMtiIgX79OclQwA9IlzX792gzDyTvQvIvokow

JDL - 2 pros, 5 unknowns, 0 antis
JUD - 6 pros, 5 unknowns, 3 antis (chair is anti)

WAM - 2 pros, 7 unknowns, 2 antis (chair is pro)
FIN - 7 pros, 5 unknowns, 1 anti (chair is anti)

PSM - 1 pro, 2 unknowns, 2 antis (vice-chair is anti)
PBS - 5 pros, 5 unknowns, 1 anti (chair and vice-chair are pros)

HTH - 2 pros, 3 unknowns, 2 antis (chair is anti)
HLT - 6 pros, 3 unknowns, 1 anti (chair is anti, vice chair is pro)

I'm making an assumption that the ratings are accurate.  Except for the FIN and HLT committees where the pros outnumber the unknowns + antis, we'd have to watch out for the unknowns and antis on the other committees since there's a chance that anti-2a bills can slip through there.