Friends, what are you loading your 9mm with?


I have tried 125 grn LRN with around 4.3 grns Unique.  It seems to shoot ok.  I have heard it is better to run 147 grn.  I have ordered a sample pack of coated 147's from SnS casting to try out.  What loads with Unique or Bullseye did you use?


Or should I stick with 125's?  What is the major advantage to using 147's? Are they more accurate?  Easier to make power factor?
 I'd probably have to go with a Bullseye load, because that is what I have a lot of. But if Unique is good maybe I can find some.


Thanks for any input!

[This probably belongs in drunken posting, and should be disregarded]

9mm is, without a doubt, the pussiest round to have survived since WWI.  Seriously! The 9mm has been around since 1902!  That's over a century!!  Get a real cartridge!  The .45 ACP only goes back to 1905.  Hell, if you want a modern cartridge, the .357 magnum only goes back to 1934!

[This probably belongs in drunken posting, and should be disregarded]

9mm is, without a doubt, the pussiest round to have survived since WWI.  Seriously! The 9mm has been around since 1902!  That's over a century!!  Get a real cartridge!  The .45 ACP only goes back to 1905.  Hell, if you want a modern cartridge, the .357 magnum only goes back to 1934!

Yes Tom..  I agree. Lol   

I used to use approx 3.4Viht N320 under a 147grn SNS LFP @ 1.115 OAL.  Yup, sounds a little short, but that's what would drop check in the barrel.  Made 135 PF out of my M&P Pro and was really soft shooting, with no over pressure signs.  My data suggests the coated are a tad bit slower (in .40 anyway) so a chrono is a good idea if you need to make PF.  To me anyway, the 147s have noticeably less muzzle rise than 124s at the same power factor.
I used to use TiteGroup with MG 147 CMJ bullets, but @ 3.2 grains, (130 PF), I could pull the handle 3x before the case would overflow.  When I looked into the case at the 2nd station on my press, I could hardly tell the difference between a correct charge and a double, and that was one big reason I switched to N320.  I have switched back to TG for practice ammo though, since N320 is pretty much impossible to find.  Just have to be careful with such a dense, fast powder and slow down a little when reloading.
Another benefit with the 147s are they seem to knock poppers down easier, but I know some prefer the feel of the 124 grn bullets.  I couldn't see much accuracy difference between the 124s and the 147s but I've never been really concerned with Bullseye Shooting type accuracy.  Also, I'm not really a load tinkerer, if it's reliable and doesn't tumble and am in the black @ 25 yards, I'm satisfied with the load accuracy for what I need.
The coated bullets from SNS are excellent, way better and cleaner than bare lead.  I just found them a little harder to get set up without knicking the coating when seating.  Bayou Bullets is another option for coated, I'm really liking them for .40.

[This probably belongs in drunken posting, and should be disregarded]

9mm is, without a doubt, the pussiest round to have survived since WWI.  Seriously! The 9mm has been around since 1902!  That's over a century!!  Get a real cartridge!  The .45 ACP only goes back to 1905.  Hell, if you want a modern cartridge, the .357 magnum only goes back to 1934!

...
I'll drink to that! (Shot of jack)

147s may or may not shoot to the sights, since manufacturers regulates them for 124s.   

Montana Gold 124s with 4.8gr W231. 

As for accuracy, sorting your cases by brand will make more difference than anything else.

I stay away from lead bullets, but that's 'cause...H&K P7.....

Interesting
What effect do the differing brands of cases have?

Interesting
What effect do the differing brands of cases have?

...
Read reply 22 here,
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=7656.msg78712#msg78712

Wow
Thanks cc and of

[This probably belongs in drunken posting, and should be disregarded]

9mm is, without a doubt, the pussiest round to have survived since WWI.  Seriously! The 9mm has been around since 1902!  That's over a century!!  Get a real cartridge!  The .45 ACP only goes back to 1905.  Hell, if you want a modern cartridge, the .357 magnum only goes back to 1934!

Ever been shot with one?

I used to use approx 3.4Viht N320 under a 147grn SNS LFP @ 1.115 OAL.  Yup, sounds a little short, but that's what would drop check in the barrel.  Made 135 PF out of my M&P Pro and was really soft shooting, with no over pressure signs.  My data suggests the coated are a tad bit slower (in .40 anyway) so a chrono is a good idea if you need to make PF.  To me anyway, the 147s have noticeably less muzzle rise than 124s at the same power factor.
I used to use TiteGroup with MG 147 CMJ bullets, but @ 3.2 grains, (130 PF), I could pull the handle 3x before the case would overflow.  When I looked into the case at the 2nd station on my press, I could hardly tell the difference between a correct charge and a double, and that was one big reason I switched to N320.  I have switched back to TG for practice ammo though, since N320 is pretty much impossible to find.  Just have to be careful with such a dense, fast powder and slow down a little when reloading.
Another benefit with the 147s are they seem to knock poppers down easier, but I know some prefer the feel of the 124 grn bullets.  I couldn't see much accuracy difference between the 124s and the 147s but I've never been really concerned with Bullseye Shooting type accuracy.  Also, I'm not really a load tinkerer, if it's reliable and doesn't tumble and am in the black @ 25 yards, I'm satisfied with the load accuracy for what I need.
The coated bullets from SNS are excellent, way better and cleaner than bare lead.  I just found them a little harder to get set up without knicking the coating when seating.  Bayou Bullets is another option for coated, I'm really liking them for .40.

Thank you for the info.  What I'm looking for.  Any Bullseye loads or Unique?  Unique fills the case nicely, but not sure if I'll be able to get any more after the little that I have runs out. 

Ever been shot with one?

After researching and looking at the data available, I am real comfortable using 9mm, with modern hollow points and propellents, for my SD needs.  I'd agree that a bigger faster piece of lead is "less pussy", but I still have switched over to the way of thinking, more holes in target the better the chance. 

Thank you for the info.  What I'm looking for.  Any Bullseye loads or Unique?  Unique fills the case nicely, but not sure if I'll be able to get any more after the little that I have runs out. 

After researching and looking at the data available, I am real comfortable using 9mm, with modern hollow points and propellents, for my SD needs.  I'd agree that a bigger faster piece of lead is "less pussy", but I still have switched over to the way of thinking, more holes in target the better the chance.

Sorry Heavies, I didn't realize you were looking for SD type load data.  When I I saw the 125grn vs 147grn and making power factor, I just assumed it was for a USPSA type load.  Sorry bout that, all my reloading data is pretty much slanted towards USPSA loads that are "accurate enough", reliable, and make either USPSA minor or major PF safely and with as little recoil as possible.  I haven't loaded with BE, nor Unique as I've only used Vhit powders, TG, and to a lesser extent Ramshot Competiton.  For what it's worth, I've found these relatively fast powders, under a relatively heavy bullet (for respective calibers), very good competition loads.  I have no idea at all how they would perform in SD loads.  Sorry again for the confusion.

Sorry Heavies, I didn't realize you were looking for SD type load data.  When I I saw the 125grn vs 147grn and making power factor, I just assumed it was for a USPSA type load.  Sorry bout that, all my reloading data is pretty much slanted towards USPSA loads that are "accurate enough", reliable, and make either USPSA minor or major PF safely and with as little recoil as possible.  I haven't loaded with BE, nor Unique as I've only used Vhit powders, TG, and to a lesser extent Ramshot Competiton.  For what it's worth, I've found these relatively fast powders, under a relatively heavy bullet (for respective calibers), very good competition loads.  I have no idea at all how they would perform in SD loads.  Sorry again for the confusion.

No, you had it right.  Thank you for the data.  Other dudes brought up SD stuff, haha.  I got gold dots for that so that is not a problem.   

Since you are concerned about power factor, then you must contemplating practical pistol competition.
In practical pistol competition, your ammo should be able to drop a popper reliably.
Heavier bullets work better. Pinpoint accuracy in combat style competition is a pleasant perk, not a primary goal.
The primary goal is reliable function.ie. round nose bullets.
The second goal is sufficient power to put the popper down with a fairly low hit. Heavy bullet momentum works.
Lastly, it should be suficiently accurate to hold a 6in  group at 25 yds.

The problem nowdays is powder availability. Heavy 9mm bullets need the slower burning powders to make power factor
While keeping pressure safe. I would not use bullseye for 147 gr bullets. Unique would be ok, though I never tested that combination.
I used lots of ww540 and hs6 when I loaded 147 gr.

Another benefit of the heavier bullet is that it takes less velocity to make PF than a lighter bullet.  With a 124, you'll need around 1010 fps or so, and that's just barely making the 125 PF required for minor.  With a 147, 855 fps will get you the minimum PF.  I typically shoot for around 130-132 PF for the regular matches, and slightly higher if there's a chrono stage. 
Less velocity required normally means less powder used.  As Oldfart's post mentioned, powder availability is a major concern right now, so for me, any little bit saved is an added plus.
On another note, since you're going to be experimenting with coated bullets, Titegroup might be a powder to consider.  TG is super smokey with lead, but I tried some with the Bayou coated bullets in .40, and noticed very little smoke.  J. Hara's had some recently, not sure if they have any left though.  Maybe grab a lb. to try and then keep an eye out for when WGS gets a shipment of N320.  1# of TG when used with 147s at minor PF lasts awhile.  Downsides I've found though, are that it takes very little case volume, it's a hot powder, it's unbelievably smokey with lead, and its not as cheap as it used to be.

Since you are concerned about power factor, then you must contemplating practical pistol competition.
In practical pistol competition, your ammo should be able to drop a popper reliably.
Heavier bullets work better. Pinpoint accuracy in combat style competition is a pleasant perk, not a primary goal.
The primary goal is reliable function.ie. round nose bullets.
The second goal is sufficient power to put the popper down with a fairly low hit. Heavy bullet momentum works.
Lastly, it should be suficiently accurate to hold a 6in  group at 25 yds.

The problem nowdays is powder availability. Heavy 9mm bullets need the slower burning powders to make power factor
While keeping pressure safe. I would not use bullseye for 147 gr bullets. Unique would be ok, though I never tested that combination.
I used lots of ww540 and hs6 when I loaded 147 gr.

I am figuring 2.8-3.0 grains of Bullseye or 3.5-3.8 grains of Unique should be enough to make PF with the 147's.  Bullseye is a fast powder, but I think it will work.

Another benefit of the heavier bullet is that it takes less velocity to make PF than a lighter bullet.  With a 124, you'll need around 1010 fps or so, and that's just barely making the 125 PF required for minor.  With a 147, 855 fps will get you the minimum PF.  I typically shoot for around 130-132 PF for the regular matches, and slightly higher if there's a chrono stage. 
Less velocity required normally means less powder used.  As Oldfart's post mentioned, powder availability is a major concern right now, so for me, any little bit saved is an added plus.
On another note, since you're going to be experimenting with coated bullets, Titegroup might be a powder to consider.  TG is super smokey with lead, but I tried some with the Bayou coated bullets in .40, and noticed very little smoke.  J. Hara's had some recently, not sure if they have any left though.  Maybe grab a lb. to try and then keep an eye out for when WGS gets a shipment of N320.  1# of TG when used with 147s at minor PF lasts awhile.  Downsides I've found though, are that it takes very little case volume, it's a hot powder, it's unbelievably smokey with lead, and its not as cheap as it used to be.

This sounds good to me.  Bullseye and Tight Group are right next to each other on the burn rate chart.  Since I have about 7 pound of Bullseye right now, I think will play with it and the Unique that I have.  I will keep an eye out for the N320 as well. 


All the info and tips are greatly appreciated!

No, you had it right.  Thank you for the data.  Other dudes brought up SD stuff, haha.  I got gold dots for that so that is not a problem.   

...
Just pondering about powder availability.
If you have bullseye, you could use 124 gr. Bullets with decent results.
Use jacketed, coated, or plated round nose bullets. Not lubricated lead bullets.
Approximately 4.3 gr will get you around 130 pf at very safe pressures.
I'm just suggesting a viable alternative given the powder supply situation.

Working on the coated 147's 9mm from SnS casting, seems to work just fine, w/ Bullseye!  I'm not  a great pistol shot, but I think they will do superb for the use I am looking at.  If I wasn't so lazy, I need to set up my chrono to make sure they make PF.

==========
I just noticed that alliant does not recommend bullseye for 9mm 147 gr bullets.
They recommend BE86, unique, PP and BD which are all much slower burning.
From what I gather, the coated bullets being non-lubricated, seem to act more like jacketed or plated velocitywise....ie. lower velocity than traditional lubed cast lead.
I think that would be bad for pressure with a superfast powder like BE.
Personally, I have never tried the coated bullets yet. It seems to me that the cost difference between the coated
bullets and the xtreme plated bullets is negligible. So I prefer the traditional look.
If I read the websites correctly:
 1000 sns 147=$85.00 landed
1000 xtreme 147 =$92 landed

So for $7 more I choose the plated bullets.
BTW you have to be mindful that you order the correct diameter.

==========
I just noticed that alliant does not recommend bullseye for 9mm 147 gr bullets.
They recommend BE86, unique, PP and BD which are all much slower burning.
From what I gather, the coated bullets being non-lubricated, seem to act more like jacketed or plated velocitywise....ie. lower velocity than traditional lubed cast lead.
I think that would be bad for pressure with a superfast powder like BE.
Personally, I have never tried the coated bullets yet. It seems to me that the cost difference between the coated
bullets and the xtreme plated bullets is negligible. So I prefer the traditional look.
If I read the websites correctly:
 1000 sns 147=$85.00 landed
1000 xtreme 147 =$92 landed

So for $7 more I choose the plated bullets.
BTW you have to be mindful that you order the correct diameter.

Thank you.  The load I have been playing with seems not to have anything in the way of pressure signs.  I need to chrono to see where I am at velocity wise.  Accuracy seems good, and recoil is very light.  One thing with Bullseye is that the powder does not fill the case much, as with any other loads I use it for.  I need to be real careful not to double throw a charge in there.  Hopefully, the velocity is where I need it, If not then I'll have to look for slower burning powder, as I don't want to be on the edge pressure wise.

For my 9mm 1911 comp gun I use bullseye with 147 round nose lead.  it shoots ragged holes at 50' with Ed Masaki shooting it. I forget who makes the bullets but it has blue bullet lube