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Build or buy an ar 15 (Read 44362 times)

dogman

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2015, 12:50:11 PM »
Quote from: z06psi on January 01, 2015, 12:33:21 PM
Let me guess.  The front sight is on backwards.
My guess is it has something to do with does size matter and macsak's role  ;)
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macsak

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2015, 12:52:18 PM »
Quote from: z06psi on January 01, 2015, 12:43:23 PM
Keep your circle of trust then.

sorry, man
not trying to give you a hard time
king keoni is fishing for someone to say, "that's what she said" in response to you saying
For comparison and they have the same length barrels, range and purpose.
and i am trying not to take the bait
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Kingkeoni

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2015, 01:15:33 PM »
Quote from: macsak on January 01, 2015, 12:52:18 PM
sorry, man
not trying to give you a hard time
king keoni is fishing for someone to say, "that's what she said" in response to you saying
For comparison and they have the same length barrels, range and purpose.
and i am trying not to take the bait

Give in to the dark side, young skywalker
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Q

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« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2015, 01:56:38 PM »
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« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 08:17:23 PM by Q »
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Rocky

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2015, 02:44:02 PM »
Quote from: macsak on January 01, 2015, 12:52:18 PM
sorry, man
not trying to give you a hard time
king keoni is fishing for someone to say, "that's what she said" in response to you saying
For comparison and they have the same length barrels, range and purpose.
and i am trying not to take the bait

I thought it was
  "The black one is bigger".   O0
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“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

beekeeping1341

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2015, 03:00:23 PM »
Quote from: z06psi on January 01, 2015, 11:15:11 AM
Tavor!!!!!!!!  I say skip the Geissele trigger.  I removed the extra spring and have had zero issues. Midwest industries fore end with the light and a good red dot.


Wow that's pretty damn bitchin right there.....I'm in the service though and the only thing that concerns me is the manual of arms and the apparent inability to use the environment around as weapon support...I've never used a bipod even before the military because I could prop my rifle up on rocks or logs or against a tree...and it really doesn't look like you can do that with the tavor...am I wrong? What kind of accuracy are you getting put of them? Cause in shtf accuracy is a big deal, the 5.56 can't defeat cover like other calibres so shots have to be precise at range. I would really like a chance to pull the trigger...before I pull the trigger ;) but if the tavor is accurate I'm all over it
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I sure as hell don't need a permit to choose my religion, so why the hell do I need a permit to acquire a firearm?

z06psi

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2015, 03:06:10 PM »
I am in the service as well. From the trigger area to end of the fore end is o.k. for what you want. I have the 16" version but they also have an 18". Accuracy wise it's the same as an M4. 300 yds is not a problem. Shooter and ammo has the most to do with this. Hell my Kriss in .45 ACP can reach out to 200 yds.

You are welcome to shoot it.
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beekeeping1341

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2015, 03:37:30 PM »
Quote from: z06psi on January 01, 2015, 03:06:10 PM
I am in the service as well. From the trigger area to end of the fore end is o.k. for what you want. I have the 16" version but they also have an 18". Accuracy wise it's the same as an M4. 300 yds is not a problem. Shooter and ammo has the most to do with this. Hell my Kriss in .45 ACP can reach out to 200 yds.

You are welcome to shoot it.

Really? Cause if its like the m4 that's good for me, not sure what branch you're in but we have to qualify with m4's at 500 yards, so if its capable of that I'm fine with it. Do you have any experience with the Aug a3? And can your tavor run with gem 3 pmags? Cause I have a shit ton of those. I'll send you a pm about getting together sometime, cause that does sound good. Ammos on me!!
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I sure as hell don't need a permit to choose my religion, so why the hell do I need a permit to acquire a firearm?

z06psi

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2015, 09:30:46 PM »
The barrel size is the same so I don't see why not. Yes it uses any AR-15 standard magazines.  Sent a a PM back.  :thumbsup:
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jonjon

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2015, 10:00:45 PM »
Come out to the next HDF shoot and you will get a chance to see what everyone is running. During the free shoot I would be more than happy to let you tryout my ar's and I bet other members would be willing to let you test out their firearms if you bring some ammo. :shaka:

You can also save a lot of money by purchasing a noveske upper and putting together your lower. :thumbsup:
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s197

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2015, 08:55:17 AM »
Buy the upper and build the lower would be a good compromise. Also for SHTF I wouldnt go 6.8spc simply because you want highly readily avail ammo and that would be 223/556
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new guy

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2015, 10:03:18 AM »
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 04:47:35 PM by new guy »
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Your mindset is your primary weapon. - Jeff Cooper

beekeeping1341

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2015, 10:29:32 AM »
Quote from: jonjon on January 01, 2015, 10:00:45 PM
Come out to the next HDF shoot and you will get a chance to see what everyone is running. During the free shoot I would be more than happy to let you tryout my ar's and I bet other members would be willing to let you test out their firearms if you bring some ammo. :shaka:

You can also save a lot of money by purchasing a noveske upper and putting together your lower. :thumbsup:

That would be super great, I'd just feel like some freeloader though if I showed up without any weapons of my own lol and asked to fire others, even if I was providing the ammo. And yeah that's what I was thinking too, just buying the upper....but the bcm kmr is lighter then the noveske noveske NSr...but damn the nsr looks great on their gen 3 uppers!!! I know I shouldn't want my shtf rifle to be super aesthetically pleasing...but itd be nice!!!
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I sure as hell don't need a permit to choose my religion, so why the hell do I need a permit to acquire a firearm?

macsak

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2015, 11:15:21 AM »
Quote from: beekeeping1341 on January 02, 2015, 10:29:32 AM
That would be super great, I'd just feel like some freeloader though if I showed up without any weapons of my own lol and asked to fire others, even if I was providing the ammo. And yeah that's what I was thinking too, just buying the upper....but the bcm kmr is lighter then the noveske noveske NSr...but damn the nsr looks great on their gen 3 uppers!!! I know I shouldn't want my shtf rifle to be super aesthetically pleasing...but itd be nice!!!

just saw an awesome noveske infidel at SEC less than an hour ago that's under your budget
but i think the AK/AR combo idea is a good one too
bullpups are a compromise, especially in terms of the trigger due to the long, complex geometry involved

pm sent in a minute re:range days
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z06psi

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2015, 03:23:02 PM »
Quote from: macsak on January 02, 2015, 11:15:21 AM
just saw an awesome noveske infidel at SEC less than an hour ago that's under your budget
but i think the AK/AR combo idea is a good one too
bullpups are a compromise, especially in terms of the trigger due to the long, complex geometry involved

pm sent in a minute re:range days

Multi calibers are coming out as well. The new ARAK-21 is tempting if I didn't have both and M4 and a SLR107. Maybe I should sell both and get an ARAK? 
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Kingkeoni

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2015, 04:09:16 PM »
Quote from: beekeeping1341 on January 02, 2015, 10:29:32 AM
That would be super great, I'd just feel like some freeloader though if I showed up without any weapons of my own lol and asked to fire others, even if I was providing the ammo. And yeah that's what I was thinking too, just buying the upper....but the bcm kmr is lighter then the noveske noveske NSr...but damn the nsr looks great on their gen 3 uppers!!! I know I shouldn't want my shtf rifle to be super aesthetically pleasing...but itd be nice!!!

Okay, since we're getting into the SHTF conversation, let me add this...

You'll want to have a common magazine/caliber for various weapons in a SHTF scenario.

The Tavor,SCAR,AR platform, Sig 556, etc, all use the same magazines.

The great thing about that is everyone in the family (or friends) can run the same mags and ammo while still enjoying their weapon of choice.

If you're looking for a SHTF rifle, that might be something to consider.

When you run out of ammo, you'll be able to find more for sure.

Logged
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

sworbeyegib

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2015, 04:13:57 PM »
A couple of my own musings on buying vs building... as well as a few of your other inquiries.

-If this is your first gun, then buy a complete rifle. Learn the ins and outs of the workings. Figure out the things you like and don't like about the gun. Put that knowledge to use when you start your first build.

-Factor in the costs of any tools and set ups you will need to do a good job if you do not already own them. Better yet, find someone that has done it before and do it with them, with their tools.

-Saving money by building an AR is partly a waiting and opportunistic game. You could just go on any site and add everything you want to your shopping cart... but to really save money, involves surfing around for special deals and sales. Could very well be the difference between a few hundred dollars.

-Bullpups can be a love/hate sort of thing. Only bullpup that has gotten my motor running is the Tavor.

-6.8spc works well on paper,  and the 6.8 seems to mostly be popular with hunters on the mainland where caliber restrictions do not allow them to use 5.56 (which is legal in Hawaii btw). If I were to choose a different chambering though, I'd probably go with .300Blackout. That being said, I think the 5.56 is perfectly fine for a defensive rifle. After all, we can load up with soft points if we like.

-$2600 is a lot of cheddar. That gives you a lot of options. Heck, you probably set up 2 mil-spec ARs with optics for that much if you shop around right.

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jonjon

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2015, 06:59:59 PM »
Quote from: beekeeping1341 on January 02, 2015, 10:29:32 AM
That would be super great, I'd just feel like some freeloader though if I showed up without any weapons of my own lol and asked to fire others, even if I was providing the ammo. And yeah that's what I was thinking too, just buying the upper....but the bcm kmr is lighter then the noveske noveske NSr...but damn the nsr looks great on their gen 3 uppers!!! I know I shouldn't want my shtf rifle to be super aesthetically pleasing...but itd be nice!!!


Come to to the HDF shoot as one of our guest and you won't be treated as a freeloader  :shaka:

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crazy cat

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2015, 10:08:56 PM »
I've built several AR-15s over the years; some thoughts based on my experience.

For a SHTF rifle, you'll want a chrome lined barrel. (How do you define SHTF?)

Building a accurate AR-15 is easy; float a good barrel.  Really, that's it. 

A good trigger helps, but for a SHTF rifle, reliability is more important than having a whole bunch of adjustments, and anything fitted will wear out sooner than you think.  I like the Rock River Arms 2 stage.

Make sure the gas tube is STRAIGHT in the upper receiver so the key doesn't bind; this may take some fiddling. 

Don't use a torque wrench; anywhere between 30lbs and 80lbs is fine, but the gas tube has to be centered in the hole.

All other things being equal, a 1 in 12 twist will be more accurate with 55gr ball than a 1 in 9 (or 7).  But the 1 in 12 won't fully stabilize 62gr bullets (think 6MOA), and is hopeless with anything heavier.

If you don't shave regularly, you want a fixed stock.  Telescoping stocks pinch.

With a 20" barrel, effective range is around 200yds (before the bullet slows down so much that it doesn't do much damage)   With a 16" barrel, it's more like 50yds.  This isn't an accuracy issue (if anything, shorter barrels are more accurate). it's a velocity issue.

Most optics are useless in heavy rain.  Even ACOGs.  The ELCAN is the only scope I've seen that is still usable with water on the lenses.  Yes, I know it's too big and makes a lightweight AR-15 top heavy.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 10:10:27 AM by crazy cat »
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mauidog

Re: Build or buy an ar 15
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2015, 12:42:23 AM »
Quote from: crazy cat on January 03, 2015, 10:08:56 PM

Most optics are useless in heavy rain. Even ACOGs.  The ELCAN is the only scope I've seen that is still usable with water on the lenses.  Yes, I know it's too big and makes a lightweight AR-15 top heavy.

I agree with everything else crazy cat said here, except for the optic in rain.

If you are talking about a magnified optic, then yes, water on the lens is an issue.

If, however, you are using a 1x holographic red dot, like an AimPoint PRO, then the water should not be a problem.

You are supposed to use both eyes when using a 1x  CQB optic.  I can leave both the front & rear lens covers closed on my PRO and see the red dot through the clear rear cover using my right eye.  The target is seen with the left eye. 

Together, both eyes give me a red dot on the target in the same spot I would see were I looking all the way through the scope. 

It's one of the cool things about red dots.  If you're in a hurry to shoot, you don't have to open the covers on the PRO -- just make sure to leave the power turned on (the battery lasts about 3 years if left on at the mid level brightness).

Once you add a magnifier to the red dot, however, you need to close the left eye -- that is, unless you have super powers that can magnify the left eye's image to match the scope!!   :D  Only a 1x optic will permit you to have both eyes open, just like iron sights.

 :shaka:

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An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper
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