Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts (Read 20264 times)

PeaShooter

Re: Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2015, 03:21:53 PM »
Of course, you have to weigh the credibility of both sides evenly, as a default position. This is true whenever it comes down to a he-said, she-said situation. One party being homeless and one party being rich, or being a politician should have nothing to do with it. If one's occupation or social status weighs into your consideration of someone's word, you are biased and should never be serving on any jury.

You are also using circular logic, when you use the "fact" that the kids "beat up a man using a camera" as a factor of credibility, when that "fact" is the very thing that is under dispute in the first place. Until the dispute is resolved by a jury, it could equally be said that the "man harassed some kids with his camera and the kids defended themselves by taking it from him."

PeaShooter

Re: Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2015, 03:26:47 PM »
By your thinking, a police officer can shoot and kill anyone he likes for no reason, and it has to be assumed that they are doing their job correctly. Because they are a police officer, after all.

mauidog

Re: Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2015, 03:38:54 PM »
Of course, you have to weigh the credibility of both sides evenly, as a default position. This is true whenever it comes down to a he-said, she-said situation. One party being homeless and one party being rich, or being a politician should have nothing to do with it. If one's occupation or social status weighs into your consideration of someone's word, you are biased and should never be serving on any jury.

You are also using circular logic, when you use the "fact" that the kids "beat up a man using a camera" as a factor of credibility, when that "fact" is the very thing that is under dispute in the first place. Until the dispute is resolved by a jury, it could equally be said that the "man harassed some kids with his camera and the kids defended themselves by taking it from him."

A jury?  Did you even see the kids on TV and the comments they made?  They admitted to beating him up, he went to the hospital, they stole his camera, and they returned his camera when they learned who he was.

There is no dispute when the little thugs admitted publicly to assault, battery and theft of personal property.

An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

mauidog

Re: Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2015, 03:40:09 PM »
By your thinking, a police officer can shoot and kill anyone he likes for no reason, and it has to be assumed that they are doing their job correctly. Because they are a police officer, after all.

What thinking are you referring to? 

I'll give you time to find some more straw for your argument...
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

PeaShooter

Re: Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2015, 04:01:36 PM »
...I'm referring to your thinking that someone in a position of power or higher perceived social status (such as a police officer or politician) automatically is more credible and justified in their actions than others (a homeless kid, or perhaps a random black person who futilely insists he has committed no crime).

At this point though I'm not sure you are trying to debate the topic in good faith. You appear to have taken a strong side on this issue, to the point where you now demand everyone else acknowledge your take on the situation as factually correct. It's not going to happen. Your side has a good argument, but it was better before you went down this recent line of thinking.

ren

Re: Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2015, 04:08:03 PM »
By your thinking, a police officer can shoot and kill anyone he likes for no reason, and it has to be assumed that they are doing their job correctly. Because they are a police officer, after all.
Police officers are screened and trained; more so then a refuse collector or a fast food worker.
or a person living on the street...defecating in front of a medical school & children's center, illegally tapping into water supplies...
There is no absolute trust.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 04:58:27 PM by ren »
Deeds Not Words

Rocky

Re: Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2015, 04:15:24 PM »
 :popcorn:  :popcorn:  :popcorn:  :popcorn:  :popcorn:  :popcorn:   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

mauidog

Re: Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2015, 04:15:43 PM »
...I'm referring to your thinking that someone in a position of power or higher perceived social status (such as a police officer or politician) automatically is more credible and justified in their actions than others (a homeless kid, or perhaps a random black person who futilely insists he has committed no crime).

At this point though I'm not sure you are trying to debate the topic in good faith. You appear to have taken a strong side on this issue, to the point where you now demand everyone else acknowledge your take on the situation as factually correct. It's not going to happen. Your side has a good argument, but it was better before you went down this recent line of thinking.

You ever fight a traffic ticket?  The judge starts out with the assumption the Cop has no motive to lie about you speeding.  Unless he knew you prior to the stop, there was no reason for him to single you out inappropriately, and he (she) therefore has no motive to lie.

On top of that, the Cop probably testifies in court many more times than you will.  His credibility is at stake in all future court appearances.  More motivation for him to tell the truth.

The judge doesn't have this predisposition because one's a Cop and one is not.  There is much more to it than that.  People try to make situations much simpler than they are in reality and argue individual points in a vacuum.

In contrast, you, being the accused, have EVERY motive to lie.  You are trying to beat or reduce the cost of a traffic ticket.

So, before either of you says one word, the judge already knows which of you has the higher likelihood of telling the truth, and which has the higher likelihood of lying to the judge.


Long story short, the judge dismissed the speeding ticket with nothing more than "he said, she said".  The judge even prefaced his ruling with, "While I don't believe the officer knowingly lied, it is possible he confused this traffic stop with another on the same night during his testimony."

 :D
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

PeaShooter

Re: Homeless people beat up politician who smashed their carts
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2015, 01:03:55 PM »
http://www.pressreader.com/usa/honolulu-star-advertiser/20150724/281479275111712/TextView

There have been numerous updates to this story, here's the most recent I've seen. Based on his history and the things he was saying earlier, I already knew the guy was going to press charges. He gets my support for pressing charges, even though I don't know if he can or should win this particular case. The facts have changed as well, he was now beaten by a mob and some individuals involved may have been misidentified. Hopefully they can recover the images that were deleted from the camera.

He wasn't beaten as badly as initial reports suggested, just minor cuts and bruises. And I don't buy the BS he keeps spouting about wanting to help to the homeless (what do you expect from a politician). I think he hates their guts. But some of them do cause a lot of problems (crime, theft, etc) so I appreciate his efforts as a whole.