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Democratic Socialism (Read 39671 times)

aieahound

Democratic Socialism
« on: August 27, 2015, 07:59:52 PM »
Is there such a thing as Democratic Socialism ?

I know Bernie Sanders comes to mind but what do you think ?
And if yes, are there others ?

Is it a transition America is in ?

If yes, Can it be stopped ?
Or
If yes, should it be allowed to continue and is future of our country ?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 10:15:20 AM by aieahound »
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mauidog

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2015, 08:09:36 PM »
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An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Q

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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2015, 08:10:26 PM »
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« Last Edit: May 19, 2025, 05:24:23 AM by Q »
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mauidog

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 08:11:42 PM »
Quote
Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) strongly supports Senator Sanders as the strongest candidate for President of the United States.
We encourage him to meet with grassroots activists throughout the country to discuss how his candidacy might effectively promote their
varied struggles for social and economic justice, human rights, world peace and a healthy environment.

Those who wish to promote the goals of democratic socialism should consider taking concrete and specific actions at the grassroots
 level that would support Sanders' candidacy. Volunteer with DSA and join us in saying: #WeNeedBernie!

http://www.dsausa.org/weneedbernie

« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 08:42:43 PM by mauidog »
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An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

eyeeatingfish

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 09:57:39 PM »
Quote from: Q on August 27, 2015, 08:10:26 PM
No.

Socialism is based in state control.

How can we choose when the state chooses for us?

If we are in charge of the state then in essence aren't we then choosing?

But back to the original question, I would imagine that a democratic socialist is someone who takes aspects of democracy and aspects of socialism and incorporates it into a political stance.
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MMM

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2015, 10:11:43 PM »
if you consider voting and taking advantage of entitlements and benefits for yourself then, yes.

pass the popcorn please. i feel a good drama coming on.   :popcorn:
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Q

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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2015, 10:51:41 PM »
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« Last Edit: May 19, 2025, 05:24:08 AM by Q »
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Jl808

Democratic Socialist
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2015, 11:15:05 PM »
An organization (including governments) will always do things to the benefit of itself. 

Take a look at Hawaii for instance.  How many of you think that "we" are really in charge of our state government?

Take a look at the Chinese 1 party system. How do you even begin to replace party officials that are deeply embedded in the system?

Bureaucracy takes a life of its own.  We do not have 3 branches of government, we have 4 (executive, legislative, judiciary, bureaucracy). It's hunger for power will never be satiated if you keep giving it more power.

In a socialist form of government, the idea that "they" work for you is almost like a blatant lie since in reality you would actually be working for them.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 11:27:40 PM by Jl808 »
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I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

mauidog

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2015, 11:54:39 PM »
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
- Abraham Lincoln

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
- Lord Acton

Because power corrupts, society's demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases.
- John Adams

The story being told in 'Star Wars' is a classic one. Every few hundred years, the story is retold because we have a tendency to do the
same things over and over again. Power corrupts, and when you're in charge, you start doing things that you think are right, but they're
actually not.
-- George Lucas

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An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Jl808

Democratic Socialist
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2015, 12:16:29 AM »
Quote from: mauidog on August 27, 2015, 11:54:39 PM
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.
- Abraham Lincoln

.... Test a man by giving him power and he will most likely *fail*.

Quote from: mauidog on August 27, 2015, 11:54:39 PM
Because power corrupts, society's demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases.
- John Adams

... Quit looking for the supermen/superwomen that will be benevolent as they rule over you. They only exist in comic books, together with the unicorns and rainbow butterflies.

Quote from: mauidog on August 27, 2015, 11:54:39 PM
The story being told in 'Star Wars' is a classic one. Every few hundred years, the story is retold because we have a tendency to do the same things over and over again. Power corrupts, and when you're in charge, you start doing things that you think are right, but they're actually not.
-- George Lucas

The Emperor: [to the Senate] In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire, for a safe and secure society which I assure you will last for ten thousand years.

[Senate fills with enormous applause]

Padmé: [to Bail Organa] So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.
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I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

mauidog

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2015, 12:39:33 AM »
George Orwell was a self-proclaimed Democratic Socialist:

Quote
Throughout his novels, documentaries, essays and journalism Orwell relentlessly and uncompromisingly criticized imperialism,
nationalism, capitalism, political dishonesty, power, totalitarianism, privilege and private education. He claimed to be a democratic
socialist, joining the Independent Labour Party in June 1938 until after the outbreak of the Second World War, but his confused
notions of socialism can be read in The Lion and the Unicorn (1941) in which he states:

“In England there is only one Socialist party that has ever seriously mattered, the Labour Party. It has never been able to achieve
any major change, because except in purely domestic matters it has never possessed a genuinely independent policy. It was
and is primarily a party of the trade unions, devoted to raising wages and improving working conditions. This meant that all through
 the critical years it was directly interested in the prosperity of British capitalism.”

http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1980s/1986/no-986-october-1986/political-ideas-george-orwell
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An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Inspector

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2015, 06:43:22 AM »
The newest oxymoron: Democratic Socialism.  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Right up there with:
Government organization
Alone together
Legally drunk
Living dead
Small crowd
Business ethics
Soft rock
Butt head
Military intelligence
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

eyeeatingfish

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2015, 07:19:24 AM »
Quote from: Q on August 27, 2015, 10:51:41 PM
You can bring a socialist government to fruition, at which point you will no longer be able to choose.

But if people democratically control the socialist government then one could argue it is still a democratic socialist government. As opposed to say a dictator running a socialist government.
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Inspector

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2015, 08:21:00 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on August 28, 2015, 07:19:24 AM
But if people democratically control the socialist government then one could argue it is still a democratic socialist government. As opposed to say a dictator running a socialist government.
Not that I want to join in the fray, but.....

I have a question about your statement: "...people democratically control the socialist government..." by definition this cannot exist. If the people control the government it cannot, by definition be a Socialist government. A Socialist government, by definition, cannot be controlled by the people. That is why it usually takes an overthrow of the government to get rid of the Socialist government/tyrant. If the people democratically control the government then they can just vote out the people in power. That is why I believe there cannot be a "Democratic Socialist". It is a made up phrase like most of the other phrases and lies the left makes up. It is a PC term. It is by the very definition an oxymoron.

I believe (And I could be wrong) that this term or phrase was invented to try and ease the thinking of the general public to eventually accept Socialism as a way of life/government. It is why the left makes up these silly phrases. Like "Assault Weapon". Don't fall into this PC way of thinking. It will eventually come back to bite you in the ass. It is quite obvious to me that the left is trying to remake and move this country to Socialism. Because all of the people you vote in to office are corrupt. And the absolute amount of power a politician can have is to be in complete control. Which is why Socialism owns and controls everything. The person or persons who control the government has the power. By taking it slowly and one baby step at a time they are trying to control the way the people think towards Socialism so eventually in 20 or 30 or 50 years we will be accepting of the "Democrat Socialist" and eventually the Democrat part will be dropped. JMHO  :shaka:
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

mauidog

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2015, 08:23:42 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on August 28, 2015, 07:19:24 AM
But if people democratically control the socialist government then one could argue it is still a democratic socialist government. As opposed to say a dictator running a socialist government.

Democratic control of a socialist country can never happen.

In a land of millions, you can't govern by the popular will of the majority vote.  The majority is uneducated, uninformed, easily lured and uninterested in politics.  The usual form of democracy winds up like ours:  a representative government.  You vote for the reps, and they vote on the issues.

Even if we had a voting population interested enough and informed enough to intelligently vote on every single issue, the logistics of holding election after election would be cost and time prohibitive.  In this case, you'd also run into Tyranny of the Majority, where the majority always wins, and the minority has no voice in any issues.  Depending on the majority to pass laws that benefit the minority is not going to turn out fairly,  Case in point:  Gay Marriage.  Many states held elections, and the majority voted against legalizing Gay Marriage.  Those votes were overturned by federal mandate

Those elected to represent you will find ways to leverage that power for their own profit.  They will do so in the name of equality and the good of the state.  That will end "democracy".

Power corrupts ...

Ask yourself WHY no examples of Democratic Socialism exist in the world ... ever.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 08:28:50 AM by mauidog »
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An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

aieahound

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2015, 08:35:43 AM »
Animal Farm.

Great example of what started as Democratic Socialism and it's potential problems with power and how controlling the media controls the uneducated and how it can degrade.

Good point Inspector.

Footnote: but apparently Orwell still believed in it if applied correctly.

Quote from: mauidog on August 28, 2015, 08:23:42 AM
Ask yourself WHY no examples of Democratic Socialism exist in the world ... ever.

Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Canada.........
Some are constitutional monarchies, which have democratic parliaments.
(Just so you don't split hairs.)
I think all would agree they're definitely leaning toward the Socialist combo.

But I digress.
 :stopjack:
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 10:47:15 AM by aieahound »
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MMM

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2015, 08:46:35 AM »
progression of democracy to socialism. we vote ourselves there and we put ourselves into a self-imposed slavery.

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. from dependence back into bondage.
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aieahound

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2015, 08:55:35 AM »
Did come up with that yourself MMM.
Heavy !

Quote from: Jl808 on August 28, 2015, 12:16:29 AM
The Emperor: [to the Senate] In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire, for a safe and secure society which I assure you will last for ten thousand years

Padmé: [to Bail Organa] So this is how liberty dies...

Blows my mind though.
Didn't Russia and China fight their way to Socialist oppression with revolutions. animal farm style.
I guess America is taking a different route.  The Emperors route.
Hence Democratic Socialism.  The transitionary period.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 10:41:46 AM by aieahound »
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MMM

Re: Democratic Socialist
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2015, 09:13:07 AM »
maybe, it's just time? a short read on political/economic cycles and waves calculated throughout our history by martin armstrong.


http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/its-just-time-martin-armstrong.pdf
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aieahound

Re: Democratic Socialism
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2015, 10:34:13 AM »
You got the cliffs notes for that short read ?  :rofl:
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 10:40:48 AM by aieahound »
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