Shipping to out of state C&R license holder (Read 4338 times)

tim808

Shipping to out of state C&R license holder
« on: September 11, 2015, 11:07:44 PM »
Sorry if this is a dumb question.  I've googled and read a bit on 2a but I couldn't find the info I'm looking for.

Can a Hawaii ffl mail a c&r firearm to an out of state c&r licensee?

The ffl I emailed can't or won't.  Is it a local ordinance/rule/law or is it just a lot riskier dealing with a type 3 ffl (c&r) compared to a type 1 ffl?

The c&r guy said I could mail it to him if my ffl won't.   But if my ffl won't, that is red flag I can't ignore.

I may have some stuff wrong - I got my info off the web - and even if it was right I always get things mixed up.

justin1098

Re: Shipping to out of state C&R license holder
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2015, 11:38:49 PM »
is it a hand gun?

tim808

Re: Shipping to out of state C&R license holder
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2015, 12:39:07 AM »
Yes, it is a handgun.

mauidog

Re: Shipping to out of state C&R license holder
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2015, 02:13:29 AM »
Sorry if this is a dumb question.  I've googled and read a bit on 2a but I couldn't find the info I'm looking for.

Can a Hawaii ffl mail a c&r firearm to an out of state c&r licensee?

The ffl I emailed can't or won't.  Is it a local ordinance/rule/law or is it just a lot riskier dealing with a type 3 ffl (c&r) compared to a type 1 ffl?

The c&r guy said I could mail it to him if my ffl won't.   But if my ffl won't, that is red flag I can't ignore.

I may have some stuff wrong - I got my info off the web - and even if it was right I always get things mixed up.

There are a few stipulations to ship a handgun to a class03. FFL.

is the pistol specifically listed in the ATF official C&R list by make, model, and year?

Did the C&R FFL send a signed copy of his license to your FFL?

Who is the registered owner of the pistol now?

Was the gun last acquired using a C&R license, or via an FFL with a dealer license?  Private sale?

Is the person you want to ship to going to keep it, or is he recieving it to transfer to someone else?
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

suka

Re: Shipping to out of state C&R license holder
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2015, 06:32:47 AM »
A private individual can ship a handgun via common carrier (NOT USPS) to a licensed dealer or C&R holder in a different State.
Info obtained from ATF.
Going through a FFL dealer does allow cheaper USPS shipping.


You also can validate his FFL/C&R  from the ATF website.

tim808

Re: Shipping to out of state C&R license holder
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2015, 07:21:58 AM »
Md -  tnx!
I have to verify if it is c&r per ATF, but I believe it is.

The c&r holder would have to send a copy of his license.....for my record purposes.

I am the owner of the pistol but was planning to transfer it to the ffl for shipping

Private sale

I believe he is going to keep it

Suka - tnx!  I'm hoping the ffl will ship it because using FedEx  or Ups is probably 60  minimum.  Besides I feel there is less risk to me if I use an ffl to ship since they should be well versed (at least I hope so)

From what I have read it seems like there are more risks/liabilities when dealing with a c&r holder vs a type 1 ffl
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 08:03:36 AM by tim808 »

dustoff003

Re: Shipping to out of state C&R license holder
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2015, 08:26:04 AM »
How about asking a different FFL? I just had a revolver shipped from Florida to an FFL here in HI. The package was 6 or 7 pounds, it had to go their most expedient manor Next Day Air, it cost $132.

mauidog

Re: Shipping to out of state C&R license holder
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2015, 11:45:13 AM »
Md -  tnx!
I have to verify if it is c&r per ATF, but I believe it is.

The c&r holder would have to send a copy of his license.....for my record purposes.

I am the owner of the pistol but was planning to transfer it to the ffl for shipping

Private sale

I believe he is going to keep it

Suka - tnx!  I'm hoping the ffl will ship it because using FedEx  or Ups is probably 60  minimum.  Besides I feel there is less risk to me if I use an ffl to ship since they should be well versed (at least I hope so)

From what I have read it seems like there are more risks/liabilities when dealing with a c&r holder vs a type 1 ffl

Is the FFL going to do your shipping and transfer without charging a fee?  USPS shipping + FFL fee might not save as much as you think over FedEx.

If the buyer has a C&R FFL and you verify it online, as Suka rightfully suggested, there should be no problems as far as payment or other "risk".  The ATF knows who that person is, and any complaints about him abusing his C&R license could land that person in serious trouble.

I would verify the pistol is absolutely in the C&R list and just bypass the local FFL.  Ship it yourself via FedEx.  Make sure you declare it's a firearm, don't ship any ammo with it, and to be safe, you can ask for a copy of the buyer's photo ID to back up the information on the C&R license he sends you.  The name and address ought to match.

How is he paying?  If you request a mailed payment, require either a money order, cashier's check, or personal check.  Don't send the gun for 10 days if he chooses to send a personal check, to give it time to clear.  If you decide to do a "gift" via PayPal, remember they won't protect you if there is a problem.  PayPal won't allow you to use them to do gun sales.  Violating their policies voids any fraud protections they offer.

If you Google a little, there are plenty of advice posts that tell you step by step how to safely protect yourself from fraud when selling anything over the Internet.  Don't ship to a PO Box, ask for a phone number and talk to the buyer to verify he can be contacted, Google the guy's name and see if you see anything troubling or questionable about him, and NEVER ship the product, especially firearms, until you have been paid.  He may not want to send payment until you send a confirmation number.  Don't fall for that.  Give him your ID info, talk on the phone, or whatever he needs to know you won't scam him.  Just don't ship before receiving payment.

Also, make sure to insure the package for the full replacement value.  Don't cheap out and decline additional insurance.  If you are having the buyer pay shipping, just tack that on to the cost and you won't have to pay it.  Firearms are lost in shipping.  If yours goes missing, you need it insured to be reimbursed by the shipper.

I can't stress enough that you make sure the gun is on the ATF list.  If you ship a gun that doesn't qualify as C&R, that can be a giant legal problem.  His license doesn't cover any guns other than C&R.  So, you will have shipped a handgun interstate to an unlicensed individual.  Not a good situation at all.

As far as the local FFL refusing, I can see their position.  Dealers trust other dealers.  Too much risk for them and their license if they make a mistake or wind up with any problems to work out.  Dealers tend to know what they are doing.  C&R licensees are basically hobbyists (collectors).  Some are very good at knowing the process and laws, but others not so much.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 11:52:01 AM by mauidog »
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper