China doesn't need to invade an island like ours - they can build islands 

When was the last time China invaded a country that wasn't on it's immediate borders? That is not Chinese military doctrine, and invasion of countries outside it's immediate vicinity is only used in last ditch efforts and worst case scenarios.

China probably would not have to invade Hawaii , but would be invited into Hawaii.   Back in February a news article said that China would arm Hawaiian separatists if the U.S. continues to arm Taiwan.  Maybe too much tinfoil but would the Kingdom welcome China's military support or if we lost the 25th would the dear leader keep Schofield open for Chinese troops to train at.   These scenarios are not impossible compared to the headlines today. 
 Imagine the HVB's happy dance when China says they will send 500,000 tourists.  Only problem is all will be male in their 20-30's and want to stay in Wahiawa.

China doesn't need to invade an island like ours - they can build islands 

They can only build islands on reefs, not in the middle of the pacific ocean.

When was the last time China invaded a country that wasn't on it's immediate borders? That is not Chinese military doctrine, and invasion of countries outside it's immediate vicinity is only used in last ditch efforts and worst case scenarios.

And Hawaii is the most central land mass between Asia and North America, which gives it's controllers the ability to refuel and replenish supplies at the mid-point between the two continents, have a standing army ready to deploy at the halfway point between the two continents, and reduces the distance for Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles by over 3,000 miles, meaning lighter grade missiles that cost less can be far more effective. 

I'm sure there are a lot more countries interested in Hawaii than China, especially if they are vying for control of the world.

Hawaii would certainly be of interest to Russia I think.

Hawaii would certainly be of interest to Russia I think.

What does Hawaii offer Russia of military or political importance that Cuba can not?

What does Hawaii offer Russia of military or political importance that Cuba can not?

Russia would need to navigate around Australia/Indonesia and Africa just to get to Cuba, which is a great distance to travel; requires a lot of resources, more than they needed in the Afghan conflict.

Russia likely wouldn't want to navigate around South America to get to Cuba, because that puts it too close to the US, and would be too expensive.

Hawaii is in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, the halfway point between Asia and North America, and can sustain life on a large scale; that's what makes it so valuable, and why Russia would be interested if the US bailed out.

Russian Hawaiians

Russia would need to navigate around Australia/Indonesia and Africa just to get to Cuba, which is a great distance to travel; requires a lot of resources, more than they needed in the Afghan conflict.

Russia likely wouldn't want to navigate around South America to get to Cuba, because that puts it too close to the US, and would be too expensive.

Hawaii is in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, the halfway point between Asia and North America, and can sustain life on a large scale; that's what makes it so valuable, and why Russia would be interested if the US bailed out.

That answers why Hawaii is a better location than Cuba from a ocean voyage perspective.  Assuming planes still fly and can get to both islands, again, what political or military purpose would either island serve Russia? 

In other words, is there a risk of Russia attacking the US Mainland?  If not, what's the benefit of controlling Hawaii militarily or politically?  Russia is already a stone's throw from Japan.  It's not like they need a stopping point to get to the rest of the Pacific Rim.

This is all pretty entertaining. If we were invaded, firearms registration records would be the least of our worries. The idea that an invading force will track you down that way is just FUD used in movies for dramatic effect. But since this is a hypothetical, I'm pretty sure things would fall in line with what Q said. It won't be about who has guns, but who is willing to take them up and become a threat.

In reality, Hawaii has never been a target for invasion and the likelihood of it in the modern age of warfare is nonexistent. Our location being of strategic value ended with the age of sail and the only natural resources we have is fresh water and a little agriculture. Just think of the logistical requirements for an invasion then occupation and you'll see it's never going to happen.

This is all pretty entertaining. If we were invaded, firearms registration records would be the least of our worries. The idea that an invading force will track you down that way is just FUD used in movies for dramatic effect. But since this is a hypothetical, I'm pretty sure things would fall in line with what Q said. It won't be about who has guns, but who is willing to take them up and become a threat.

In reality, Hawaii has never been a target for invasion and the likelihood of it in the modern age of warfare is nonexistent. Our location being of strategic value ended with the age of sail and the only natural resources we have is fresh water and a little agriculture. Just think of the logistical requirements for an invasion then occupation and you'll see it's never going to happen.

There's a twist to the plot if Hawaii were invaded compared to Calumet, CO, in the movie Red Dawn.  Hawaii has a pretty substantial military presence.  Personnel, arms, ammo, heavy weapons, protective gear, high tech weapons, comms, Intel, and other in-place supplies.

Add to that the civilian population, law enforcement, the weapons, ammo, and gear available from those sources, and the vast Naval assets in port, deployed, and in transit, I believe any force that attempted to invade would have to catch our forces by total surprise.  I hope we learned some valuable lessons from the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor that will give us much earlier warning than we had on that day.

Hawaii would certainly be of interest to Russia I think.

Not really. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia has been a regional power, like China, but with far less global influence.

There's a twist to the plot if Hawaii were invaded compared to Calumet, CO, in the movie Red Dawn.  Hawaii has a pretty substantial military presence.  Personnel, arms, ammo, heavy weapons, protective gear, high tech weapons, comms, Intel, and other in-place supplies.

Add to that the civilian population, law enforcement, the weapons, ammo, and gear available from those sources, and the vast Naval assets in port, deployed, and in transit, I believe any force that attempted to invade would have to catch our forces by total surprise.  I hope we learned some valuable lessons from the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor that will give us much earlier warning then we had on that day.

Without a doubt our military presence would be a factor, but even without it there would be no threat of invasion. And that might be the case if Congress ever revisits the DoD report .

I think where we might differ is on the civilian population & law enforcement. Other than those with prior service, I don't put much into their combat effectiveness or willingness to fight.


BIG thumbs up for referencing the classic and knowing where. 

Without a doubt our military presence would be a factor, but even without it there would be no threat of invasion. And that might be the case if Congress ever revisits the DoD report .

I think where we might differ is on the civilian population & law enforcement. Other than those with prior service, I don't put much into their combat effectiveness or willingness to fight.


BIG thumbs up for referencing the classic and knowing where. 

Well, you're just not playing by the rules!   

The topic supposes Hawaii has been invaded.  Taking the invasion out of the equation changes the premise entirely.

Given Hawaii's pineapples and kukui nuts are enough to push another country into invasion, would our gun registration list pose a problem for legal gun owners?

My previous answer wasn't explicit, but what I was implying was, the invasion would have a very difficult time succeeding to a point where that registration list would ever be a problem for us.

Plus, there is a huge former military, reserve, guard, and military family member population who have the willingness and aptitude, if not current training, to augment the existing active military forces.  Even if everyone can't fight, there are plenty of behind the lines jobs needing to be done!   

Well, you're just not playing by the rules!   

The topic supposes Hawaii has been invaded.  Taking the invasion out of the equation changes the premise entirely.

Given Hawaii's pineapples and kukui nuts are enough to push another country into invasion, would our gun registration list pose a problem for legal gun owners?

My previous answer wasn't explicit, but what I was implying was, the invasion would have a very difficult time succeeding to a point where that registration list would ever be a problem for us.

Plus, there is a huge former military, reserve, guard, and military family member population who have the willingness and aptitude, if not current training, to augment the existing active military forces.  Even if everyone can't fight, there are plenty of behind the lines jobs needing to be done!   

RUUUULLES are for FOOOOLs  ...but ok fine. I'll play along and amend my last, "there would be no little threat of invasion".  Are we applying standard ROE for the invading force or is it a total war scenario for this "protect our nuts" hypothetical? Ah, doesn't matter....I agree it would be difficult (I want to say impossible) before any registration list would be taken. By that time, gun owners would have had the time to GTFO or surrender their weapon one bullet at a time.

Maybe you missed the prior service part or just misread it.  I have no doubt that the warrior ethos is still in those you mentioned and that they'll remember their training and fight. It's the "pure" civilian that I question. I'm not sure what your MOS was (or rating, I'm fairly certain you're no squid) , so perhaps we have differing ideas of what invasion means. But there is no "behind the lines", anyone capable of doing so would have to either take up arms and fight or not.

A lot of pure civilians did some real damage in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
Guerrilla warfare.
Catch 'em in the jungles with the hunters.

Mongooses !

China probably would not have to invade Hawaii , but would be invited into Hawaii.   Back in February a news article said that China would arm Hawaiian separatists if the U.S. continues to arm Taiwan.  Maybe too much tinfoil but would the Kingdom welcome China's military support or if we lost the 25th would the dear leader keep Schofield open for Chinese troops to train at.   These scenarios are not impossible compared to the headlines today. 
 Imagine the HVB's happy dance when China says they will send 500,000 tourists.  Only problem is all will be male in their 20-30's and want to stay in Wahiawa.

First of all, that article is incorrect as there is no such thing as "Hawaiian separatists".  Hawaii is illegally occupied by the US based on both US and International Law.  Secondly, you ask, "would the restored Hawaiian Nation welcome China's military?"  The correct answer is a resounding yes, but not because of politics; but because of Hawaii Kingdom Law which declared to the International community that Hawaii was a neutral State similar to Switzerland.  Consequently, all navies around the World would be welcomed in Hawaii's ports as long as they pay their port fees and leave when their stay is over.

Kuleana

Good point, Q. If China was going to invade a country across the ocean, it would be Taiwan.

If China decides to invade Taiwan, it would be invading a province of China.  Taiwan is not an internationally recognized country nor has any legal basis to become one.


Kuleana

First of all, that article is incorrect as there is no such thing as "Hawaiian separatists".  Hawaii is illegally occupied by the US based on both US and International Law.  Secondly, you ask, "would the restored Hawaiian Nation welcome China's military?"  The correct answer is a resounding yes, but not because of politics; but because of Hawaii Kingdom Law which declared to the International community that Hawaii was a neutral State similar to Switzerland.  Consequently, all navies around the World would be welcomed in Hawaii's ports as long as they pay their port fees and leave when their stay is over.

Kuleana

Oh, here we go again with the imaginary Hawaiian Kingdom bullshit.

Well, the good thing is that if China or Russia (or anyone else for that matter) ever came to Hawaii, they would wipe these Hawaiian kingdom asshats off the planet. Most people can't stand their bullshit, most people don't care, so I highly doubt countries with the track records of Russia and China would give two shits either.

Consequently, all navies around the World would be welcomed in Hawaii's ports as long as they pay their port fees and leave when their stay is over.

Love how you proclaimed yourself emissary to the kingdom of fairy world, btw, and are telling us how it is going to be.

I might as well declare myself Emperor of the Oceania while I'm still ahead...Empires beat kingdoms, so suck it Hawaiian Kingdom; I rule you.

First of all, that article is incorrect as there is no such thing as "Hawaiian separatists".  Hawaii is illegally occupied by the US based on both US and International Law.  Secondly, you ask, "would the restored Hawaiian Nation welcome China's military?"  The correct answer is a resounding yes, but not because of politics; but because of Hawaii Kingdom Law which declared to the International community that Hawaii was a neutral State similar to Switzerland.  Consequently, all navies around the World would be welcomed in Hawaii's ports as long as they pay their port fees and leave when their stay is over.

Kuleana

Of course there are no Hawaiian Separatists...if there were the US govt. would squash 'em. You guys ike the luxury of freedom but are too chicken shit to separate yourself from the very country that provides it.
Chinese Navy pay your port fees? 
They build islands on reefs. They would probably say F*CK your fees b!otch!!!    The Chinese are all about bringing resources back to the motherland. They'd rape Hawaiian lands.

First of all, that article is incorrect as there is no such thing as "Hawaiian separatists".  Hawaii is illegally occupied by the US based on both US and International Law.  Secondly, you ask, "would the restored Hawaiian Nation welcome China's military?"  The correct answer is a resounding yes, but not because of politics; but because of Hawaii Kingdom Law which declared to the International community that Hawaii was a neutral State similar to Switzerland.  Consequently, all navies around the World would be welcomed in Hawaii's ports as long as they pay their port fees and leave when their stay is over.

Kuleana

Well there we go, no invasion just the open door.