Mods, if this is the wrong place to post this, please move, my apologies.....
Grand kids and their parents are visiting from California. Went to KHSC today to teach the kids how to shoot. One is 13 the other 10 and both would be shooting 22's. Prior to leaving for the range I ran both thru the NRA rifle course and went over all the regs for the range had then both read the rules at the range and they signed in. Had my grandson on the line with me directly alongside of him, gun unloaded and was going over sight alignment and, once again, firearms safety. One of the RSO's approached me (the old fart with the grey hair) and asked me how old he was. Told him 10. Then he asked me if he attended the Hunter Safety Course, told him no. I asked why was he asking me these questions since all the conditions for him to shoot had been met IAW the range rules. He said that he needed to attend a hunter safety course to shoot there. Promptly told him that was NOT correct and to show me where it stated that. He started to get a little perturbed about me questioning him and telling him to show me where it said that (he never did). I then advised him that I am a certified NRA instructor in ALL disciplines as well as a former Master Instructor with the Hawaii Hunter Education program (quit in 2007 due to health reasons) as well as being an NRA Certified RSO and RSO trainer and said "is there any more doubt about my quals? Is so I'd be happy to show him my cert card from the NRA. I also told him I do not appreciate him "making his own rules" and that if he persisted with this than his superiors would be contacted immediately. After that he walked away BUT conferred with the other RSO (tall fella with whom I have had previous run in with concerning his attitude and conduct as an RSO. I decided to continue mentoring my grandson. I noticed the tall RSO standing in back of me watching how I was teaching and was probably just waiting for a screw up, which never occurred. After awhile he too gave up and walked away.

What is going on with these two fools? I've heard they are jerks but I refuse to pass judgement until I see it or experience it with my own eyes. After my experience today, it appears these rumors are true. Sure he has a right to ask me how old he is, can I prove he is 10, ensure he is shooting a 22 but goes overboard with the rest. Am I missing something? Per the KHSC website, my grandson met all the age requirements as well as the 22 meeting the firearm caliber requirement and he having him and the firearm under direct control at all times (I directly beside him and crouched down to his level being no more than inches away from the firearm and him at any given time).

Sorry for the long post and it being a little on the rant side but this really has me irked. I plan on writing to the Mayor's office as well and the parks department. I will get the name of the RSO involved and submit it in both letters. Will also have a conversation the Mike Muramoto about this.

Looking for everyone's honest opnion... Thanks!

Mods, if this is the wrong place to post this, please move, my apologies.....
Grand kids and their parents are visiting from California. Went to KHSC today to teach the kids how to shoot. One is 13 the other 10 and both would be shooting 22's. Prior to leaving for the range I ran both thru the NRA rifle course and went over all the regs for the range had then both read the rules at the range and they signed in. Had my grandson on the line with me directly alongside of him, gun unloaded and was going over sight alignment and, once again, firearms safety. One of the RSO's approached me (the old fart with the grey hair) and asked me how old he was. Told him 10. Then he asked me if he attended the Hunter Safety Course, told him no. I asked why was he asking me these questions since all the conditions for him to shoot had been met IAW the range rules. He said that he needed to attend a hunter safety course to shoot there. Promptly told him that was NOT correct and to show me where it stated that. He started to get a little perturbed about me questioning him and telling him to show me where it said that (he never did). I then advised him that I am a certified NRA instructor in ALL disciplines as well as a former Master Instructor with the Hawaii Hunter Education program (quit in 2007 due to health reasons) as well as being an NRA Certified RSO and RSO trainer and said "is there any more doubt about my quals? Is so I'd be happy to show him my cert card from the NRA. I also told him I do not appreciate him "making his own rules" and that if he persisted with this than his superiors would be contacted immediately. After that he walked away BUT conferred with the other RSO (tall fella with whom I have had previous run in with concerning his attitude and conduct as an RSO. I decided to continue mentoring my grandson. I noticed the tall RSO standing in back of me watching how I was teaching and was probably just waiting for a screw up, which never occurred. After awhile he too gave up and walked away.

What is going on with these two fools? I've heard they are jerks but I refuse to pass judgement until I see it or experience it with my own eyes. After my experience today, it appears these rumors are true. Sure he has a right to ask me how old he is, can I prove he is 10, ensure he is shooting a 22 but goes overboard with the rest. Am I missing something? Per the KHSC website, my grandson met all the age requirements as well as the 22 meeting the firearm caliber requirement and he having him and the firearm under direct control at all times (I directly beside him and crouched down to his level being no more than inches away from the firearm and him at any given time).

Sorry for the long post and it being a little on the rant side but this really has me irked. I plan on writing to the Mayor's office as well and the parks department. I will get the name of the RSO involved and submit it in both letters. Will also have a conversation the Mike Muramoto about this.

Looking for everyone's honest opnion... Thanks!

Welcome to Hawaii, where everyone thinks they are the master of the universe and gets all f'ing butt hurt when you prove them wrong.

I've had some BS encounters with the RSOs as well; telling me that I needed to have a shell catch, and when I told him to show me where it says that in the rules, get all pissy and threaten to kick me off the range.

This is why I wish it was like BI or the mainland: just go into the boonies to the makeshift range, exercise some common sense and enjoy yourself without all the BS that comes with the micromanaging taking place at KHSC

Kvetching here is fine, but largely therapeutic and not productive.  Maybe filing complaints with the C&C would be a good step?  Sure, one complaint will probably go unnoticed, but I bet it doesn't take very many at all to get the attention of someone a little farther up the food chain.

The cool RSOs left. Stephen the person that made the unofficial KHSC website is gone.
Most of these new RSOs have a different character. SOme of them just flat out kick people out (ahem pistol side)
But these RSOs have to deal with all kinds of shooters of varying backgrounds, personalities and attitudes.

If you're talking about the KHSC info page, it's not 100% accurate.  I think the hours during the week are different now so some of the info may be a couple of years out of date.  I do believe the rules for the rifle range are posted next to the RSO'S office on either the clipboard when you sign in or on the bulletin board next to the sign in table. 

Not sure if it's the same guy, but almost every time I go to KHSC rifle side, there is a taller, darker, wears a ball cap, old guy that stands behind me and watches me shoot. He once made me dry fire my rifle to see if I was flinching. He also pointed out, that there was a cap on my muzzle that could be unscrewed to reveal a threaded barrel on my bolt action 308win. He then told me that they make muzzle brakes for rifles if they have a threaded barrels like mine did. I'm thinking in my head WTF!, but I let him finish his "mentoring".  I don't think he does it to the old retirees that shoot there. On the weekdays I'm usually the youngest guy there so maybe I'm a red flag?

Besides that one guy the other RSOs have always treated me fair and friendly. Whenever I go to KHSC I am expecting him to treat me like it's my first time fondling a rifle, so it kinda prepares me if it does happen. Maybe he is that way after dealing with unsafe shooters through the years.

Wonder why the RSO told you Hunters Ed was required.

I miss the voice and demeanor of the guy that passed away and the young guy who set the hill on fire with the flare gun. He was really helpful when I first took my kids.
9 years old, 22 caliber good to go was my understanding.

Having to deal with people like that and only being able to shoot paper targets was why I rarely went to the range when I lived on Oahu.  When I moved to the Big Island, I looked for a place where I could set up my own range.  Now I just walk out to my backyard and shoot to my heart's content at silhouettes, plastic bottles filled with water, wood blocks etc.  I regularly hear gunshots coming from neighboring properties as well and a couple of the neighbors I met told me, "We watch out for each other out here and we like neighbors with guns".  I couldn't ask for a better gun friendly neighborhood.  I love it here.

Children 9-12 must be supervised by an adult and are limited to 22lr. Ages 9-12 may shoot center fire if a Certified Hunter Education card is provided.

Over the years, there have been several parents lying about the ages of the children at the range. Sometimes it's very easy to tell whether the child is of age, sometimes it isn't.

Koko Head has a zero-tolerance policy on the rules. The pistol ROs do excuse a lot more persons for safety violations than the rifle side, particularly due to the nature of and ease of swinging a shorter barrel.

Today, someone was excused for loading more than five rounds, shooting into the berm with no target frame, sweeping the left of the line (he was on the far right position), and finally, pointing a gun with a closed slide at the RO.

Each violation included a warning, for a total of four warnings, with the shooter talking back each time.

I understand people have issues with the ROs at times. However, they have to understand that the ROs don't hover or fabricate things out of the blue. The 9-12 22LR rule is posted near each sign-in station.

I know the ROs on-duty today and will refer this post to the range master.

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I've had someone rack their slide with their pistol side ways facing me a couple times.  They don't even know what they'd did wrong a lot.  I wouldn't want to be a RSO that's for sure.  Even marines who are grilled in and out about their weapons 24/7 have tons of negligent discharges.  I think is just human nature for a percentage of us to be bone heads.

In a sense, this is why it's necessary to have ROs. Keep in mind, we must always be cognizant that this range can/will be shutdown should a serious incident occur.

A few months ago, a pistol shooter pointed a gun at a RO and pulled the trigger. The gun went off, but did not fire, because the RO wedged the web of his hand into the hammer and disarmed the shooter with the assistance of another RO.

The gun was cleared and a round ejected. Had that RO, or any other range user, been killed, we have been informed that the range would shutdown permanently.

Range users need to keep in mind that ROs deal with EVERYONE throughout the day. The RO may or may not know you, but most likely, a rules violator is someone who is unfamiliar, and should be approached with caution and expeditiously, especially if muzzle sweeping. Unfortunately, that does translate into yelling.

Imagine having a loaded gun pointed at you four-six times a day, sometimes more. That's the life of an RO. Some of the methods differ from RO-to-RO, but as with everything, you build rapport and follow the rules, your range day is more enjoyable.

However, the most dangerous words are "I know," and the most dangerous item at the range is an "unloaded firearm." ROs are human and have good days and bad days. Keep in mind that they are ALL gun guys, and are working to ensure safety and that the rules are enforced as to ensure the range usage for all into perpetuity. We are all one serious injury away from losing the range entirely.

I can sympathize with the RSO's sometimes. If something goes wrong blame might fall on them and there could be calls to close the range and I am sure they don't want the whole island blaming them for the closure of the only public range.

I miss the voice and demeanor of the guy that passed away and the young guy who set the hill on fire with the flare gun. He was really helpful when I first took my kids.
9 years old, 22 caliber good to go was my understanding.

I believe you are referring to Sy. He had that voice that just pierced through my ear muffs. He made my wife cry one time when she came shooting with me. LOL

Most people didn't like him but I think he ran the range very well.

...I don't think he does it to the old retirees that shoot there. ...

I know who you are referring to. Believe me, all of us old guys have had our run ins with this guy. Some more than others. And I have even been mentored by him once. I had a run in with him just recently. He was wrong. I let it go. Life goes on.

A few months ago, a high ranking administrator from parks and rec was there investigating complaints about the RO.

I don't know if anything ever became of that.... I guess not.

I believe you are referring to Sy. He had that voice that just pierced through my ear muffs. He made my wife cry one time when she came shooting with me. LOL

Most people didn't like him but I think he ran the range very well.

Yeah that's him.
He could make you crap your pants as a newbie.

It was a right of passage to get yelled at by Sy when you were just starting out.

But he ran a tight range.

Yeah that's him.
He could make you crap your pants as a newbie.

It was a right of passage to get yelled at by Sy when you were just starting out.

But he ran a tight range.

Funny you mention the right of passage. The first time I was yelled at by him I took it a bit personally even though I was wrong. After realizing he did it a lot and to everyone I just let it slide off my shoulder. Every Sunday morning I would say good morning to him and he never responded. After about a year he finally started saying good morning back. And even once in a while we would talk story.

I watched him stand up to two brothers who were very irate because he kicked them off the range for not following his orders. He was trying to keep them safe and they didn't care. HPD was called and they were ticketed and escorted off the range. Sy was an old man and to watch him stand up to these two much younger guys was impressive. I gained a whole new respect for him and how he ran the range after that. He didn't take crap from anyone.

Kvetching here is fine, but largely therapeutic and not productive.  Maybe filing complaints with the C&C would be a good step?  Sure, one complaint will probably go unnoticed, but I bet it doesn't take very many at all to get the attention of someone a little farther up the food chain.

Just venting I guess... there will be formal complaints filed with the parks department and the mayor's office as well. I know they are under a lot of pressure and have to deal with all sorts of people but I think their "authority" is going to their heads somewhat.......