^^^^^because once completing and passing the hunter ed course the minor (minimum for minor is 10 years of age) can legally hunt with adult supervision.............which would require a centerfire rifle with a minimum muzzle energy of 1200 ft/pd.

And if the RSOs had watched the line a little better wouldn't they have seen the guy you mentioned walking up to the line, crossing over the yellow line and picking up the revolver before he could start loading it? And once he was identified as having a problem the first ("polite") time, shouldn't the RSOs been keeping a much closer eye on him?

Agreed.

I understand they want to promote a friendly environment, but shooting the shit by the office instead of vigilantly patrolling the line is unacceptable.

I know people are going to say, "well why don't you do it then"; hence the reason most people don't want to work as an RSO and do what an RSO should do, because it's hard work to monitor multiple people and firearms at one time.

think the c&c parks and rec is still taking applications..........................

Noted. I'll point all the ROs to this thread as the reason to keep a closer eye on everyone and crack down more.

It's become apparent that range user registration is needed, as the huge signs near the required sign-in still goes unnoticed, as stated here.



Rule #1. Know and obey all range commands.

Nuff said. Come and enjoy shooting safely. Or enjoy the firearms community online because you were mouthy and a safety liability and got trespassed and banned. Those are the simple choices. You can either have a severe crackdown, in which case there will be more whining and complaining, or we can have an unsafe environment, in which case someone could die and there will be even more whining. Like I said, ROs can't win. However, are the authority for the range.

You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. Tough.

The personalities of the ROs differ but even after decades of shooting there I obey them.
The ad for ROs is still up at the range.
There are rules to be followed but few ever read them. There is ALWAYS a day at the range when the ROs have to say "stay back of the yellow line"; despite having a yellow line and signs above the log book. Before a cease fire the ROs always remind people not to approach the bench ahead of the yellow line and not to pick things up on the bench - do people listen? NO - despite audio and visual cues.
At about $13 an hour maxing out at 18 hours a week who wants to work as an RO and deal with these kind of people on a weekend?
I'm thankful that we have a C&C range with all this anti gun sentiment in Hawaii.

The personalities of the ROs differ but even after decades of shooting there I obey them.
The ad for ROs is still up at the range.
There are rules to be followed by few ever read them. There is ALWAYS a day at the range when the ROs have to say "stay back of the yellow line"; despite having a yellow line and signs above the log book. Before a cease fire the ROs always remind people not to approach the bench ahead of the yellow line and not to pick things up on the bench - do people listen? NO - despite audio and visual cues.
At about $13 an hour maxing out at 18 hours a week who wants to work as an RO and deal with these kind of people on a weekend?
I'm thankful that we have a C&C range with all this anti gun sentiment in Hawaii.

You got to have a special place in your heart for the range or shooting community to do the job.

You did leave out the part where people question and argue the rules EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

And point loaded guns at each other or the RO walking the line, then gets upset and mad when they get yelled at.

Same thing on these forums. Good reminder that ROs are both unappreciated and much-needed at the same time.

The personalities of the ROs differ but even after decades of shooting there I obey them.
The ad for ROs is still up at the range.
There are rules to be followed by few ever read them. There is ALWAYS a day at the range when the ROs have to say "stay back of the yellow line"; despite having a yellow line and signs above the log book. Before a cease fire the ROs always remind people not to approach the bench ahead of the yellow line and not to pick things up on the bench - do people listen? NO - despite audio and visual cues.
At about $13 an hour maxing out at 18 hours a week who wants to work as an RO and deal with these kind of people on a weekend?
I'm thankful that we have a C&C range with all this anti gun sentiment in Hawaii.

I could care less about the range if I could just shoot behind my house.

Sadly, it's all we have, so I have no choice to follow their rules and deal with it.

Thanks for the history of the legislation. It's interesting to note but it doesn't clear up the question of why a 9-12 year-old who has successfully completed the HE course can shoot center fire guns on the range while the 9-12 year-old who hasn't is disallowed from shooting center fire. Maybe K9, who sounds like a current RSO, could answer the question?

I agree 100%. the kids who attend the camp are better educated upon completion than those who did not attend BUT with a knowledgeable and responsible coach/parent teaching the kids who were not fortunate enough to attend are just just as good (maybe better due to thier long term instruction) then those who went to the camp. In my honest opinion just the HE course should make no difference. Let them shoot and learn. The 22lr restriction proves or prevents nothing except for dumb parents who let thier first timer son/daughter shoot thier 30-06 (I've seen it happen).

Agreed.

I understand they want to promote a friendly environment, but shooting the shit by the office instead of vigilantly patrolling the line is unacceptable.

I know people are going to say, "well why don't you do it then"; hence the reason most people don't want to work as an RSO and do what an RSO should do, because it's hard work to monitor multiple people and firearms at one time.

And therein lays the problem...I always see the ROs huddled together instead of watching the line. Or hanging out and shooting with their friends instead of watching the line (and posting pictures on FB of them doing so)...I don't know, but is the one older RO still reloading ammo while on-duty? We're talking responsibility here and it's kinda hard to believe they're doing all they can when they let their fellow ROs light the range on fire with a flare gun....

I don't have a problem with ROs making people abide by the rules, but if rules differ from one section of the range to the other than that's a problem. If there isn't a standardized set of rules that you can provide to shooters (rather than an old, faded set stapled to the announcement board), then that's a problem. You want to be considered a professional, act like one.

Noted. I'll point all the ROs to this thread as the reason to keep a closer eye on everyone and crack down more.

It's become apparent that range user registration is needed, as the huge signs near the required sign-in still goes unnoticed, as stated here.



Rule #1. Know and obey all range commands.

Nuff said. Come and enjoy shooting safely. Or enjoy the firearms community online because you were mouthy and a safety liability and got trespassed and banned. Those are the simple choices. You can either have a severe crackdown, in which case there will be more whining and complaining, or we can have an unsafe environment, in which case someone could die and there will be even more whining. Like I said, ROs can't win. However, are the authority for the range.

You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. Tough.

See, there's the problem. When individuals that use the range make legitimate complaints that the ROs are acting like power hungry asses, the response is, 'too bad' and 'if you don't like it, tough.' Or fine, I'll ask the ROs to "crack down" more....You are there not only to make sure things are safe, but to provide a modicum of education to those than may need a little help.

I don't think anyone is asking for a "severe crackdown" but rather a professional and calm demeanor, some consistency with the rules and the application thereof, and some reasonable efforts to actually pay attention to the whole range, all the time instead of watching the ROs having a chat fest or shooting guns while they're on duty.... 

I really enjoy using the range, and I'm grateful that we have it available to us.  I'm also grateful to the ROs and RSOs that help provide a safe environment for all of us.

That being said, I don't believe they are volunteers...  and since we're (indirectly) paying for them, we have the right to expect a certain minimum level of service; to my mind, that includes a courteous attitude.  You CAN be courteous and firm at the same time.  I've never had a negative interaction with any of the RSOs, and have been courteously corrected on a couple of occasions when they've been concerned about minor details of what I was doing.  No problem with that.  On the other hand, I have seen RSOs deal with shooters from a perspective of "you're an idiot, and I've got power, so I'm going to make you feel little and stupid."  Not OK.

Regarding leaving a loaded magazine on the shooting bench when going downrange...  I agree 100% that it is MORE safe to not have loaded magazines on the bench while folks are downrange.  I think the risk of something bad happening when there's a loaded magazine on the bench is very small, but it's even smaller when there no loaded mags on the bench.  That doesn't make it a range rule.  If you want it to be a rule, post it on the signs with the rules, and if it applies to the handgun side, it should equally apply to the rifle side (you seriously think it's more difficult to pop a loaded mag into an AR than into a Glock?).  "Range commands," to me, means "approach the bench, handle firearms, and commence firing," "complete your firing," and "cease fire."  So that means, IN MY OPINION, that "don't leave a loaded mag on the bench during a cease fire" is neither a range rule nor a range command; it's an RSO/RO enforcing a personal preference...  which is OK, but if it's my first time to the range, don't expect me to know about it and don't treat me like an idiot if I inadvertently violate that non-rule.

Summary: NOBODY benefits when ANYBODY starts flipping attitude.  Let's treat each other with respect and have a safe (1st priority), fun (2nd priority) time.