Good Evening.

Recently the agenda for this meeting was posted. As it had to do with the change in HPD policy regarding Kaiser and Straub members, and their difficulty in obtaining permits to acquire both long guns and pistols, a sense of urgency was imparted.

Since HPD was supposed to offer an explanation for this drastic and abrupt change in policy, that is denying numerous people of their Constitutionally protected right to legally purchase firearms, I chose to attend and report back their explanation.

I was sorely disappointed.

Not only was the Chair late for his own meeting, HPD didn't even bother to show up. I found this particularly disconcerting because, were I to walk out the door of the venue where the meetings are held, I could literally spit on the police station. The only "action" taken was the Chair humbly asking the Mayors representative if he would kindly "look into the problem". Hardly what I was led to expect.

To me this shows great disrespect by HPD for the public it's supposed to serve. Also arrogance on their part, as they seem to expect members of the public to provide them with "proof" of their innocence in order to exercise their constitutional rights. If HPD has a problem getting Kaiser and Straub to cooperate with state law, the citizens shouldn't be the ones penalized. Perhaps this could be the basis for yet another lawsuit against HPD. Hopefully one against Kaiser and Straub has already begun.

Now that I'm irritated, because I blew off my company Christmas party, free beer, Beef Wellington, suckling pig and many other delicacies, and wasted my time on this, I'll be bringing it up at the next HKNB meeting with HPD and the Mayors rep. to see if I can get some reaction there.

Aloha,

Edster

Good Evening.

Recently the agenda for this meeting was posted. As it had to do with the change in HPD policy regarding Kaiser and Straub members, and their difficulty in obtaining permits to acquire both long guns and pistols, a sense of urgency was imparted.

Since HPD was supposed to offer an explanation for this drastic and abrupt change in policy, that is denying numerous people of their Constitutionally protected right to legally purchase firearms, I chose to attend and report back their explanation.

I was sorely disappointed.

Not only was the Chair late for his own meeting, HPD didn't even bother to show up. I found this particularly disconcerting because, were I to walk out the door of the venue where the meetings are held, I could literally spit on the police station. The only "action" taken was the Chair humbly asking the Mayors representative if he would kindly "look into the problem". Hardly what I was led to expect.

To me this shows great disrespect by HPD for the public it's supposed to serve. Also arrogance on their part, as they seem to expect members of the public to provide them with "proof" of their innocence in order to exercise their constitutional rights. If HPD has a problem getting Kaiser and Straub to cooperate with state law, the citizens shouldn't be the ones penalized. Perhaps this could be the basis for yet another lawsuit against HPD. Hopefully one against Kaiser and Straub has already begun.

Now that I'm irritated, because I blew off my company Christmas party, free beer, Beef Wellington, suckling pig and many other delicacies, and wasted my time on this, I'll be bringing it up at the next HKNB meeting with HPD and the Mayors rep. to see if I can get some reaction there.

Aloha,

Edster

I'm not surprised.

Every single HPD officer I know with inside access is keeping quiet about this and refusing to give any information. They refuse to even acknowledge my questions, as if they were instructed not to talk about this.

Good Evening.

Recently the agenda for this meeting was posted. As it had to do with the change in HPD policy regarding Kaiser and Straub members, and their difficulty in obtaining permits to acquire both long guns and pistols, a sense of urgency was imparted.

Since HPD was supposed to offer an explanation for this drastic and abrupt change in policy, that is denying numerous people of their Constitutionally protected right to legally purchase firearms, I chose to attend and report back their explanation.

I was sorely disappointed.

Not only was the Chair late for his own meeting, HPD didn't even bother to show up. I found this particularly disconcerting because, were I to walk out the door of the venue where the meetings are held, I could literally spit on the police station. The only "action" taken was the Chair humbly asking the Mayors representative if he would kindly "look into the problem". Hardly what I was led to expect.

To me this shows great disrespect by HPD for the public it's supposed to serve. Also arrogance on their part, as they seem to expect members of the public to provide them with "proof" of their innocence in order to exercise their constitutional rights. If HPD has a problem getting Kaiser and Straub to cooperate with state law, the citizens shouldn't be the ones penalized. Perhaps this could be the basis for yet another lawsuit against HPD. Hopefully one against Kaiser and Straub has already begun.

Now that I'm irritated, because I blew off my company Christmas party, free beer, Beef Wellington, suckling pig and many other delicacies, and wasted my time on this, I'll be bringing it up at the next HKNB meeting with HPD and the Mayors rep. to see if I can get some reaction there.

Aloha,

Edster

sorry ed
 

I'm not surprised.

Every single HPD officer I know with inside access is keeping quiet about this and refusing to give any information. They refuse to even acknowledge my questions, as if they were instructed not to talk about this.

They have been watching this forum , and know they are about to be sued.

Thank you ed for taking the time.  You are an officer and a gentleman.

They have been watching this forum , and know they are about to be sued.

Nah, has nothing to do with the potential lawsuit.

I already told them the info wouldn't be used in a court of law, and they still won't budge.

Thank you ed for taking the time.  You are an officer and a gentleman.

As always, you're welcome, all of you. But let's not get crazy, I'll settle for being branded a patriot and a supporter of the Constitution and all it stands for.

As always, you're welcome, all of you. But let's not get crazy, I'll settle for being branded a patriot and a supporter of the Constitution and all it stands for.

Thanks Ed. 

Apologies, Ed. Had I known you were in attendance, we would have included you in the discussion about the topic prior to the meeting. I did a round in the room to see if anyone was in attendance, also wanted a roll call on these forums prior to the meeting to gather everyone before the meeting was convened.

I was late because I was outside discussing the issue with the Councilman's Rep, the Mayor's Rep, and the D5 HPD liaison. My vice chair convnened the meeting as requested so I could have more time with the three.

The D5 watch commander could not comment too much, as he only reports crime statistics and himself was unaware of the firearms policy. The Mayor's rep and council rep is looking further into the issue, and how it can be reversed under the premise that it was unfairly implemented and unjust towards a large amount of constituency.

When I posted the agenda, I was notified by MacSak, and several 2a groups that they would send reps and a "large amount of persons," seeing none (as I had expected), I began discussion outside to save time and to discuss the issue in detail with concerned parties.

As far as the issue is concerned, and the irritation due to assumptions by lack of understanding of this particular political system, I will advise my board, Councilmen (Fukunaga and Manahan), and the Mayor's rep to halt their investigation/fact finding and any action to correct this policy.

I'm finding that the firearms community is vocal on these forums, but lack action. If anyone really cared, that room would have been filled to the brim. I was not going to devote a large amount of time to an issue that one person showed up for, when there were others there for U.S. Senator Schatz presentation, or the Nextera takeover, and other issues. That's just how things are.

Our meetings usually run over, and I felt, as it is within my purview and responsibilities, to save time by receiving the reports by HPD and HFD prior to the meeting, and using that time to discuss the issue more in-depth rather than wasting valuable televised airtime and meeting time for an issue that no one--or just one person--showed up for.

So as disappointed you are, as am I. I was informed and expected many, many more persons to show up for an issue I thought more people were passionate about.

I reviewed the sign-in. Over the course of the 2-hour meeting, 53 people signed in who were not elected persons, reps, or presenters. Only one--now I know--was a 2a supporter. We had more support for fixing a crooked road in the valley than this particular issue.

It's difficult to get things done when that is the show of support for one agenda item.

I commend Ed for showing up. However, for the board and overall community, it is a small, unpopular issue. I will not devote anymore time or resources to it, as it is clear that venting on an online forum is more convenient and useful to most than actually utilizing resources to reverse this policy.

Hopefully a lawsuit can get it done. However, with all the political flak I've received by just putting this on the agenda, and now on this thread. It's bullshit, and not worth pursuing for myself as chairman, RO (which I equally receive the same amount of bullshit for for keeping you all safe from your own hubris, idiocracies or each other), and as a person.

Apologies, Ed. Had I known you were in attendance, we would have included you in the discussion about the topic prior to the meeting. I did a round in the room to see if anyone was in attendance, also wanted a roll call on these forums prior to the meeting to gather everyone before the meeting was convened.

I was late because I was outside discussing the issue with the Councilman's Rep, the Mayor's Rep, and the D5 HPD liaison. My vice chair convnened the meeting as requested so I could have more time with the three.

The D5 watch commander could not comment too much, as he only reports crime statistics and himself was unaware of the firearms policy. The Mayor's rep and council rep is looking further into the issue, and how it can be reversed under the premise that it was unfairly implemented and unjust towards a large amount of constituency.

When I posted the agenda, I was notified by MacSak, and several 2a groups that they would send reps and a "large amount of persons," seeing none (as I had expected), I began discussion outside to save time and to discuss the issue in detail with concerned parties.

Wow

As far as the issue is concerned, and the irritation due to assumptions by lack of understanding of this particular political system, I will advise my board, Councilmen (Fukunaga and Manahan), and the Mayor's rep to halt their investigation/fact finding and any action to correct this policy.

I'm finding that the firearms community is vocal on these forums, but lack action. If anyone really cared, that room would have been filled to the brim. I was not going to devote a large amount of time to an issue that one person showed up for, when there were others there for U.S. Senator Schatz presentation, or the Nextera takeover, and other issues. That's just how things are.

Our meetings usually run over, and I felt, as it is within my purview and responsibilities, to save time by receiving the reports by HPD and HFD prior to the meeting, and using that time to discuss the issue more in-depth rather than wasting valuable televised airtime and meeting time for an issue that no one--or just one person--showed up for.

So as disappointed you are, as am I. I was informed and expected many, many more persons to show up for an issue I thought more people were passionate about.

I reviewed the sign-in. Over the course of the 2-hour meeting, 53 people signed in who were not elected persons, reps, or presenters. Only one--now I know--was a 2a supporter. We had more support for fixing a crooked road in the valley than this particular issue.

It's difficult to get things done when that is the show of support for one agenda item.

I commend Ed for showing up. However, for the board and overall community, it is a small, unpopular issue. I will not devote anymore time or resources to it, as it is clear that venting on an online forum is more convenient and useful to most than actually utilizing resources to reverse this policy.

Hopefully a lawsuit can get it done. However, with all the political flak I've received by just putting this on the agenda, and now on this thread. It's bullshit, and not worth pursuing for myself as chairman, RO (which I equally receive the same amount of bullshit for for keeping you all safe from your own hubris, idiocracies or each other), and as a person.

Just wow

So you expected a bunch of us to show up at a neighborhood board meeting in a neighborhood we don't live in to listen to an advertised HPD presentation that never took place because HPD couldn't comment ?

I thought you'd report back to us on what they said. Didn't know it was a rally of some kind.

Thanks Ed for your dedication and always reporting on these things.   

K9 your RO and community involvement is greatly appreciated. Don't bail on us yet. Maybe just approach it a little differently.
And I gotta agree with Mac...Just Wow.

I expect a bunch of you to show up when a bunch of you come to the range and tells me a bunch of you are going to show up.

Instead of putting HPD on the pedestal and allowing them a chance to say, "well, who is driving this issue? No one seems interested here tonight." Basically, justifying their stance. I handled it more intimately without showing him no one really cared.

I gave my report. I wasn't going to, as even I felt no one cared. As far as I'm concerned, those who told me they, they're friends, or their groups were attending bailed on me, their word, and their community.

I'm just acknowledging it.  Disheartened and now, uninterested.

My approach, unfortunately, seems to work everywhere else and with issues other than this one and "my" 2a community. I'm realizing more and more, this community is unresponsive or just feigns its numbers.

As far as I'm concerned, "the squeakiest wheel gets the oil." I'm done advocating. I have responsibilities to other issues that constituencies show true support and passion for.

1.  I agree with AH that we are not all residents of the Kalihi Valley district:

SUBJECT OF THREAD -->  Kalihi Valley #16 Neighborhood Board Meeting

Therefore, most of us not residing in that area would not get, nor take much interest in, the schedule or agenda for that meeting without there being an indication the discussions included 2A-related toopics.

2.  This forum is not a resource every gun buyer knows of or routinely visits.  To expect this to be the (end all-be all) method of informing gun buyers of the current problems at HPD is unreasonable.  In particular, those new to owning guns probably have no clue about this forum's existence, yet they are being affected immediately by the new policies.

3.  Not everyone on this forum has Kaiser and Straub and therefore have no real standing to voice a complaint with the new policy until they are individually affected.

4.  Not everyone on this forum has purchased a firearm in the last month and therefore has not been affected by the new policy.  Until we do buy a pistol or renew a long gun permit, many of us may be unaware of the policy changes and costs involved.  As I said, not everyone is on this forum day-to-day.

5.  HPD, as far as I can tell, made zero effort to advertise the new policy, before, during, or after implementation.

6.  I don't know what you, Macsak and other people at the range you didn't name discussed last week, but I see no announcements in the EVENTS section of this forum.  A little communication goes a long way.  Instead of chastising the forum members for not  showing, maybe someone on the council could have made sure an announcement was posted?

7.  I'm a Kaiser member, but I've not applied for a permit since this all started.  I'd be very interested in showing up for whatever venue you think is appropriate to voice our concerns.  However, if I don't know about the event, don't blame me for failing to attend!

8.  Many of us have jobs or limited vacation time which do not allow us to attend these kinds of meetings.  That's just a fact of life. 

9.  You may not enjoy the "political flak" that comes from having these 2A issues placed on an agenda, but I believe that is part of the job as a council member/chair, is it not?  It would be nice if everyone on the council supported 100% of each others agenda items, but then there would be no need for a council, would there?  If that were the case, we would just need one councilman to pass everything without objections from anyone.

10.  I have no idea if you are personally affected by the new policies or not, since it only affects Kaiser and Straub patients -- so far.  If you  have the attitude that this issue is "not worth pursuing for myself as chairman, RO [...]  and as a person,"  is it  because you have no "skin in the game" yourself?

11.  It was obvious from your statements that those in attendance who would be able to address the new policies know nothing about them,  EVEN THOUGH the issue was on the agenda.  That tells me whoever is administering the meeting dropped the ball by not informing the key players what was supposed to be discussed.  If you are the person responsible for adding the agenda item, maybe it's your responsibility to discuss it with the key players before the night of the meeting?  A little heads-up, at least?

Allowing the HPD and Mayor's representatives to show up unprepared to discuss the new policy issues would have been a waste of the time for all the 2A supporters you said you expected to be there.  As you stated, maybe a lawsuit will get them moving to fix the policy, but it would be more efficient to have these problems raised before such drastic measures are undertaken.

These are just my personal observations and opinions .... please don't assume the entire 2A forum agrees with these points unless they also provide their viewpoint.

I expect a bunch of you to show up when a bunch of you come to the range and tells me a bunch of you are going to show up.

Instead of putting HPD on the pedestal and allowing them a chance to say, "well, who is driving this issue? No one seems interested here tonight." Basically, justifying their stance. I handled it more intimately without showing him no one really cared.

I gave my report. I wasn't going to, as even I felt no one cared. As far as I'm concerned, those who told me they, they're friends, or their groups were attending bailed on me, their word, and their community.

I'm just acknowledging it.  Disheartened and now, uninterested.

My approach, unfortunately, seems to work everywhere else and with issues other than this one and "my" 2a community. I'm realizing more and more, this community is unresponsive or just feigns its numbers.

As far as I'm concerned, "the squeakiest wheel gets the oil." I'm done advocating. I have responsibilities to other issues that constituencies show true support and passion for.

So this was supposed to be a rally for 2A?  It didn't seem as so, by the postings and lack of info on this situation/meeting.  Sorry I could not take off of work and attend.  Maybe if I knew this was going to be a rally, I'd have called in sick from work, as I have done when rallies of this nature occur.  Better communication is the key, if you are really serious about making a difference. I did see that the issue was going to be discussed, but didn't see that this was supposed to be a key meeting that would end all the problems that are occurring in regards to 2A.

My bad. My apologies.

+1 for above

From MauiD:
6.  I don't know what you, Macsak and other people at the range you didn't name discussed last week, but I see no announcements in the EVENTS section of this forum.  A little communication goes a long way.  Instead of chastising the forum members for not  showing, maybe someone on the council could have made sure an announcement was posted?

+1 again

Keep up the good fight K9 and just fill us in on what you need. 

I expect a bunch of you to show up when a bunch of you come to the range and tells me a bunch of you are going to show up.

Instead of putting HPD on the pedestal and allowing them a chance to say, "well, who is driving this issue? No one seems interested here tonight." Basically, justifying their stance. I handled it more intimately without showing him no one really cared.

I gave my report. I wasn't going to, as even I felt no one cared. As far as I'm concerned, those who told me they, they're friends, or their groups were attending bailed on me, their word, and their community.

I'm just acknowledging it.  Disheartened and now, uninterested.

My approach, unfortunately, seems to work everywhere else and with issues other than this one and "my" 2a community. I'm realizing more and more, this community is unresponsive or just feigns its numbers.

As far as I'm concerned, "the squeakiest wheel gets the oil." I'm done advocating. I have responsibilities to other issues that constituencies show true support and passion for.

...

I expect a bunch of you to show up when a bunch of you come to the range and tells me a bunch of you are going to show up.

Instead of putting HPD on the pedestal and allowing them a chance to say, "well, who is driving this issue? No one seems interested here tonight." Basically, justifying their stance. I handled it more intimately without showing him no one really cared.

I gave my report. I wasn't going to, as even I felt no one cared. As far as I'm concerned, those who told me they, they're friends, or their groups were attending bailed on me, their word, and their community.

I'm just acknowledging it.  Disheartened and now, uninterested.

My approach, unfortunately, seems to work everywhere else and with issues other than this one and "my" 2a community. I'm realizing more and more, this community is unresponsive or just feigns its numbers.

As far as I'm concerned, "the squeakiest wheel gets the oil." I'm done advocating. I have responsibilities to other issues that constituencies show true support and passion for.

Thank you for the report and update K9.  Please let us know when the next meeting on the issue is, and how we can help you.  You can PM me if you would like.