Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

A couple of easy one-liners, cherry-picked for a point.  The Bible has references that can be taken as endorsement for self defense.  While I've not taken to time to search them out, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that other major religions had similar tenets.  Imagine, then, a church founded on the universal precept that self defense is a personal responsibility.  Sermons could span numerous holy works.  Congregations would be expected to carry.  Sunday school would be a mixture of theological study and applied technique.  The gym would be oriented towards force on force training.  There would be an indoor shooting range.  CPR & First Aid training sponsored monthly.  Donations would be used for outreach. 

What are your thoughts?  What passages can you cherry-pick from other religious works, quotes from prophets, etc?  What would entice you to join?

A couple of easy one-liners, cherry-picked for a point.  The Bible has references that can be taken as endorsement for self defense.  While I've not taken to time to search them out, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that other major religions had similar tenets.  Imagine, then, a church founded on the universal precept that self defense is a personal responsibility.  Sermons could span numerous holy works.  Congregations would be expected to carry.  Sunday school would be a mixture of theological study and applied technique.  The gym would be oriented towards force on force training.  There would be an indoor shooting range.  CPR & First Aid training sponsored monthly.  Donations would be used for outreach. 

What are your thoughts?  What passages can you cherry-pick from other religious works, quotes from prophets, etc?  What would entice you to join?

"Fire and wind come from the sky, from the gods of the sky. But Crom is your god, Crom and he lives in the earth. Once, giants lived in the Earth. And in the darkness of chaos, they fooled Crom, and they took from him the enigma of steel. Crom was angered. And the Earth shook. Fire and wind struck down these giants, and they threw their bodies into the waters, but in their rage, the gods forgot the secret of steel and left it on the battlefield. We who found it are just men. Not gods. Not giants. Just men. The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts....Steel you can trust. - Father of Conan the Barbarian 

"Live by the sword, die by the sword" is not possible unless there is someone else with a sword.

[Opening can of worms]
Luke 6:31

Do to others what you would want them to do to you.

[Opening can of worms]
Luke 6:31

Do to others what you would want them to do to you.

Self defense has no conflict with that axiom.  In fact, it's part of the Use-Of-Force Continuum. 

The range of force goes from a presence to verbal, to physical.  Each step allows the reaction of the other person to cease escalation.  You are demonstrating to them you are empathetic and reluctant to use maximum force from the get-go.

That's how I would want to be "done to me" if I'm causing problems or breaking the law.  I'd want to have the least amount of force necessary inflicted to elicit compliance.  If anything escalates, it would be my fault. 

It's illogical to use this to one's advantage, expecting others to be sheep while I act violently.  The saying is not a hypothetical (If others are bound to reciprocate, then I'll treat everyone extra nice).  It's a standard (in a given situation, how would I like to be treated?). The realistic answer should be "whichever way is fair."

Self defense has no conflict with that axiom.  In fact, it's part of the Use-Of-Force Continuum. 

The range of force goes from a presence to verbal, to physical.  Each step allows the reaction of the other person to cease escalation.  You are demonstrating to them you are empathetic and reluctant to use maximum force from the get-go.

That's how I would want to be "done to me" if I'm causing problems or breaking the law.  I'd want to have the least amount of force necessary inflicted to elicit compliance.  If anything escalates, it would be my fault. 

It's illogical to use this to one's advantage, expecting others to be sheep while I act violently.  The saying is not a hypothetical (If others are bound to reciprocate, then I'll treat everyone extra nice).  It's a standard (in a given situation, how would I like to be treated?). The realistic answer should be "whichever way is fair."

I was thinking more in terms of the hostilities between Israel and the Palestinians. It seems the Palestinians are the ones who start shooting rockets over the border and Israel retaliates by bombing the shit out of them. Then the Palestinians come back and say that Israel killed more of us than we did of them. They are the murders. They started it. And then the Palestinians start a rocket campaign against Israel. And Israel retaliates. And Israel has always had the policy of defending itself but making sure when it does it hurts the attacker more than Israel was hurt.

"Fire and wind come from the sky, from the gods of the sky. But Crom is your god, Crom and he lives in the earth. Once, giants lived in the Earth. And in the darkness of chaos, they fooled Crom, and they took from him the enigma of steel. Crom was angered. And the Earth shook. Fire and wind struck down these giants, and they threw their bodies into the waters, but in their rage, the gods forgot the secret of steel and left it on the battlefield. We who found it are just men. Not gods. Not giants. Just men. The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts....Steel you can trust. - Father of Conan the Barbarian 

While the wisdom of the Cimmerians is deep and profound, perhaps a more *ahem* orthodox reference is needed?

I was thinking more in terms of the hostilities between Israel and the Palestinians. It seems the Palestinians are the ones who start shooting rockets over the border and Israel retaliates by bombing the shit out of them. Then the Palestinians come back and say that Israel killed more of us than we did of them. They are the murders. They started it. And then the Palestinians start a rocket campaign against Israel. And Israel retaliates. And Israel has always had the policy of defending itself but making sure when it does it hurts the attacker more than Israel was hurt.

Terrorism can't be reasoned with.  All you can do is ensure their actions are never rewarded, and when possible, punished with extreme prejudice!

If they think their violence has benefited their cause in any way, it encourages them to kill even more.

Terrorism can't be reasoned with.  All you can do is ensure their actions are never rewarded, and when possible, punished with extreme prejudice!

If they think their violence has benefited their cause in any way, it encourages them to kill even more.

Problem is with that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Psalms 144:1

Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle

A couple of easy one-liners, cherry-picked for a point.  The Bible has references that can be taken as endorsement for self defense.  While I've not taken to time to search them out, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that other major religions had similar tenets.  Imagine, then, a church founded on the universal precept that self defense is a personal responsibility.  Sermons could span numerous holy works.  Congregations would be expected to carry.  Sunday school would be a mixture of theological study and applied technique.  The gym would be oriented towards force on force training.  There would be an indoor shooting range.  CPR & First Aid training sponsored monthly.  Donations would be used for outreach. 

What are your thoughts?  What passages can you cherry-pick from other religious works, quotes from prophets, etc?  What would entice you to join?

This is a superb idea Tom!

Since the government has been forced to take "Pastafarians" seriously enough that they are now allowed to have their colanders on their head for drivers license photos, there is no reason this can't be done.

We wouldn't necessarily need to limit teachings to religious works either. I can see incorporating statements from our founding fathers and the teachings of great military minds like Sun Tzu and Frederick the Great and many other "Prophets".

Research to begin immediately.......

The irony is I started off as a gardener

Ecclesiastes 3:8

"a time to love and a time to hate,
    a time for war and a time for peace."

Problem is with that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I don't see any problem. 

Terrorism is any act intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act.

Regardless of who you happen to be pulling for, terrorism describes the tactic, not what the stated objective or enemy is.  The fact that they are attacking civilians makes them terrorists.  Period.

Eyeeatingfish, are these the "freedom fighters" you refer to?

Ephesians 6:11-12

"Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%206:10-18

Ok, I think we've established that both Christian and Cimmerian writs support self defense.  I was really hoping to hear from a broader range of philosophies.  Maybe passages from the Qur'an, the Talmud, the Báb, Dianetics, the Sutras, the Vedas, or the Book of the SubGenius, to name a few canonical texts.

Problem is with that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

HMMM

HMMM

I get it!   

 

"Kill them. For the Lord knows those that are His own."
-Arnaud Amalric
A Cistercian who urges a soldier to kill everyone, Cathars and Catholics in the Albigensian crusade

Modern translation:
"Kill them all. Let God sort them out."