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Are private sales dead? (Read 7799 times)

Paul96734

Are private sales dead?
« on: January 06, 2016, 01:31:36 PM »
I know the executive action signed on January 5th contains language about who is, and who isn't allowed to sell firearms without a FFL license, or when this will actually take effect. I also know that nothing has been formally explained to the public, and law enforcement, by the DoJ. My question is: are private sales dead until they are defined, and has anyone attempted to process a private transfer with HPD since the announcement?

Thanks in advance.
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Drakiir84

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2016, 02:15:46 PM »
Nothing has been signed yet.
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"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
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Q

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2016, 04:03:11 PM »
Quote from: Paul96734 on January 06, 2016, 01:31:36 PM
I know the executive action signed on January 5th contains language about who is, and who isn't allowed to sell firearms without a FFL license, or when this will actually take effect. I also know that nothing has been formally explained to the public, and law enforcement, by the DoJ. My question is: are private sales dead until they are defined, and has anyone attempted to process a private transfer with HPD since the announcement?

Thanks in advance.

No.

Until the law is clarified, the old law still stands.

And even when the new stuff is clarified, it won't have any real effect
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Heavies

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2016, 07:11:37 PM »
Quote from: Q on January 06, 2016, 04:03:11 PM
No.

Until the law is clarified, the old law still stands.

And even when the new stuff is clarified, it won't have any real effect

It is not a law.  PO(S)TUS DOES NOT make laws.  He can direct gov employees to interpret the law.  Or, he can ask congress to make law.  If the law is clear, then it is clear, but you can bet they are scrubbing for any bit of ambiguity they can find.
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Q

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2016, 07:20:27 PM »
Quote from: Heavies on January 06, 2016, 07:11:37 PM
It is not a law.  PO(S)TUS DOES NOT make laws.  He can direct gov employees to interpret the law.  Or, he can ask congress to make law.  If the law is clear, then it is clear, but you can bet they are scrubbing for any bit of ambiguity they can find.

I'm not talking about barry soetoro.

"engaged in the business of" is already defined in the law. All mrs. soetoro can do is attempt to force those departments controlled by the executive branch (i.e. the ATF) to interpret the law a certain way.

This will all blow over once people start taking dumbo ears and his executive branch to court for violation of the constitution.
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OpenCarryHawaii

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2016, 10:53:12 PM »
Just out of curiosity I pulled up the application form for FFL. It needs to be changed a lot to be applicable to private party sales. For instance:

18. Do You Intend To Make a Profit from Your Business?
Yes
No (If no, do not submit application)

18a. Do You Intend To Sell Firearms Only at Gun Shows?
Yes (If yes, do not submit application)
No

19. Do You Intend to Use Your License Only to Acquire Personal Firearms?
Yes (If yes, do not submit application.)
No

It seem to me that some LAWS will have to be changed/rewritten which we all know is congress' job.
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Legalize the Constitution!

OpenCarryHawaii

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2016, 10:56:42 PM »
Quote from: OpenCarryHawaii on January 06, 2016, 10:53:12 PM
Just out of curiosity I pulled up the application form for FFL. It needs to be changed a lot to be applicable to private party sales. For instance:

18. Do You Intend To Make a Profit from Your Business? I don't know about anyone else, but I never profit from anything I sell, much to the displeasure of my Chinese wife...
Yes
No (If no, do not submit application)

18a. Do You Intend To Sell Firearms Only at Gun Shows?
Yes (If yes, do not submit application)
No

19. Do You Intend to Use Your License Only to Acquire Personal Firearms? This would be my main purpose
Yes (If yes, do not submit application.)
No

It seem to me that some LAWS will have to be changed/rewritten which we all know is congress' job.
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In God we trust.
Legalize the Constitution!

nathanm14fan

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2016, 09:32:07 AM »
Let's not forget the state-specific aspects of this: Hawaii allows "private" non-dealer sales, but a state issued permit is required for any (legal) firearms acquisition, whether modern or even a pre-1899 antique (which the ATF doesn't even define as a firearm). In states with no such requirement or firearm registration system, regulation of private party transfers is essentially unenforceable. 
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Inspector

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2016, 01:01:17 PM »
Do the EO's say we as private citizens have to run background checks to sell a gun? Or are the EO's forcing us to register as a Federal FFL in order to run the background checks. I understand that we here in Hawaii have a unique situation where HPD runs the background checks for us. But if the EO's specifically say we must become Federal FFL's in order to sell the firearms (Because Obummer assumes there can be no other way of running a background check) then we are all pretty much screwed.
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stangzilla

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2016, 01:44:11 PM »
the most important interpretation will be HPD firearms division's interpretation of the EO
and we all know how they interpret CCW
good luck!    >:(
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mauidog

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2016, 01:55:10 PM »
Quote from: Inspector on January 07, 2016, 01:01:17 PM
Do the EO's say we as private citizens have to run background checks to sell a gun? Or are the EO's forcing us to register as a Federal FFL in order to run the background checks. I understand that we here in Hawaii have a unique situation where HPD runs the background checks for us. But if the EO's specifically say we must become Federal FFL's in order to sell the firearms (Because Obummer assumes there can be no other way of running a background check) then we are all pretty much screwed.

There is no way they will make all sellers register as FFLs.  That would be more insane than even they could manage.

I think they are trying to target anyone who sells guns regularly or shortly after acquiring them.  Those would be "in the business" and would require an FFL and BG checks.

What I read is EVENTUALLY Obama would want to extend this plan to become the "universal BG checks" like some states have tried to.  Private sellers would have to go through the PD or FFL and pay for a BG Check on the buyer.  The seller would not be an FFL themselves.

That's how I'm reading it -- at least for the moment.
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OpenCarryHawaii

Re: Are private sales dead?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2016, 06:06:09 PM »
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Legalize the Constitution!
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