I've been collecting some C&R rifles and I'm thinking about applying for a C&R License so I can avoid the FFL transfer fees if I buy them online.

Has anyone tried applying here in Honolulu? I read the FAQ about applying for one on the ATF website and downloaded the forms but have yet to fill them out.

I've been collecting some C&R rifles and I'm thinking about applying for a C&R License so I can avoid the FFL transfer fees if I buy them online.

Has anyone tried applying here in Honolulu? I read the FAQ about applying for one on the ATF website and downloaded the forms but have yet to fill them out.

Simple process and short wait for the license.  Notice there are 2 sets of forms in the application:  One for ATF and one for your local PD.  Make sure you send the shorter version without the payment to HPD.  Since you are pretty much retyping the same info twice, the application itself is shorter than it appears.

It costs $30 for 3 years, so make sure you plan to save that much in that timeframe versus FFL costs.  If you're paying more than $25 for FFL transfers, that should be just one!   

Not only do you save the FFL fee, but  you can have the firearms shipped directly to you, and you don't have to go through the Permit to Acquire process for handguns or the 2 week wait.  You should at least have a valid long gun permit, so they know you weren't crazy when they last checked!

The biggest drawback as Q can attest to is if you decide to sell you collection off.  Selling a bunch of C&R items too soon after purchase can trigger a flag that you are engaging in a business.  That's not allowed under a Class 03 license.  In that case, it's easier to do a transfer to yourself, then sell while not in your C&R inventory.

Q posted his obstacles in other threads here if interested.  I say, if you have the interest, plan on more purchases, and will be keeping them until you find something you'd like even more, it's well worth the $30.

Check out reload hawaii on youtube.  He has a video of how to.  I got mine a few years ago no problems

Getting it is no problem, but be set on keeping them for extended periods of time, if not indefinitely, or until your permit expires.

HPD and the Hawaii ATF like to make up their own rules and accuse of you acting as an 01FFL when you attempt to liquidate  your collection for whatever reason and/or attempt to reduce your inventory in order to make room for new inventory, and will continue to harass you about shit that happened 3 years ago if you make them shove all their bs up their ass with letters and laws from the ATF and United States Code, which specifically outline what it means to be 'engaged in the business of selling firearms', therefore exonerating you from their ridiculous accusations.

Aside from that, it's a great option to have. 

Getting it is no problem, but be set on keeping them for extended periods of time, if not indefinitely, or until your permit expires.

HPD and the Hawaii ATF like to make up their own rules and accuse of you acting as an 01FFL when you attempt to liquidate  your collection for whatever reason and/or attempt to reduce your inventory in order to make room for new inventory, and will continue to harass you about shit that happened 3 years ago if you make them shove all their bs up their ass with letters and laws from the ATF and United States Code, which specifically outline what it means to be 'engaged in the business of selling firearms', therefore exonerating you from their ridiculous accusations.

Aside from that, it's a great option to have. 

So YOU'RE the arms dealer been selling Mosins to all the Micro gangs!   

So YOU'RE the arms dealer been selling Mosins to all the Micro gangs!   

I'm sure HPD would like to think so. 

The C&R License is easy and quick to obtain. Also, be prepared to follow the ATF rules to the letter. You will also need to buy a bound book to keep track of all your firearms. They are not expensive and can be found on Amazon.

Out of curiosity, what happens in the following scenario (e.g., nothing, must log firearm in/out, etc)?

1.  A non-C&R eligible firearm is purchased in HI thru normal means (i.e., obtained permit, purchased and registered).
2.  Several years pass and you decide to get a C&R and continue renewing it.
3.  Several more years pass and the firearm you bought in step #1 becomes C&R eligible and your C&R is still valid.
4.  Several more years pass and you decide to sell and your C&R is still valid.

Out of curiosity, what happens in the following scenario (e.g., nothing, must log firearm in/out, etc)?

1.  A non-C&R eligible firearm is purchased in HI thru normal means (i.e., obtained permit, purchased and registered).
2.  Several years pass and you decide to get a C&R and continue renewing it.
3.  Several more years pass and the firearm you bought in step #1 becomes C&R eligible and your C&R is still valid.
4.  Several more years pass and you decide to sell and your C&R is still valid.

Before I answer this I am interpreting the ATF rules the way I think is correct. I could be wrong and I don't want you to construe what I say as legal advice. Just so you know I keep a bound book as required by the law and I keep a separate list that deals with my firearms not related to using my C&R.

1. I would document it on my separate list and not in the bound book since my C&R license was not used to purchase the firearm.
2. Nothing occurs since you never used the license at this point. However, I recommend that you document all your firearms in your safe on a separate document including acquisitions and sales.
3. Nothing changes if you followed what I do above.
4. Again, nothing changes. Except I would document the sale on my separate document.

I think the idea here is that you are being required to document any and all acquisitions and sales involving your C&R License. If you document all acquisitions and sales not involving your C&R license then there cannot be any suspicion that you may be hiding something or doing something illegal like running a business with your license.

Here is what puzzles me. I have a friend who also has a C&R and was visited by the ATF here in Hawaii. He uses his C&R to get discounts from the outfits that offer FFL discounts. He would buy things like bullets and casings etc. According to the ATF agent he had to document those acquisitions as well because he got a discount because of the license. Also, they told him to document all of his firearms in the bound book. He did not keep a separate listing like I do. YMMV

Out of curiosity, what happens in the following scenario (e.g., nothing, must log firearm in/out, etc)?

1.  A non-C&R eligible firearm is purchased in HI thru normal means (i.e., obtained permit, purchased and registered).
2.  Several years pass and you decide to get a C&R and continue renewing it.
3.  Several more years pass and the firearm you bought in step #1 becomes C&R eligible and your C&R is still valid.
4.  Several more years pass and you decide to sell and your C&R is still valid.

Just put it this way: if HPD gives you problems, show them the letter from the assistant director of the ATF, which explains that C&R licensees can sell their C&Rs, so long as they are not doing so for profit or are 'engaged in the business of selling firearms'.

Then show them the law that defines what 'engaged in the business of' means.

As far as your scenario: ALL C&R firerearms must be logged in your record book, regardless of if you used your C&R license to obtain them or not. I also suggest you keep a good record book (not a composition book), or print off a template and bind it with good materials, then keep this in a very safe location. I also highly suggest you find some sort of digital template and keep digital records as a backup.

I never had any inspections from the ATF personally, but that does not mean it doesn't happen. They do not accept any form of excuses if you cannot provide your record log, so always keep that up to date and on hand.

The C&R License is easy and quick to obtain. Also, be prepared to follow the ATF rules to the letter. You will also need to buy a bound book to keep track of all your firearms. They are not expensive and can be found on Amazon.

My research when I got my C&R FFL said you don't have to have a commercially printed "bound book".  You can use a computer spreadsheet, a homemade printed page you keep in a 3-ring binder, etc. 


http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=91130

Thanks for taking time to reply.

So to clarify the responses to my scenario if I obtained a '03 FFL after the purchase of non-C&R "Firearm A", the year "Firearm A" becomes C&R eligible, I don't need to log it as a receipt? 
The moment I sell "Firearm A", which has become a C&R, I log it as a disposition.  So my log would have "Firearm A" with a disposition but no receipt?

OR

If I obtained a '03 FFL after the purchase of non-C&R "Firearm A", the year "Firearm A" becomes C&R eligible, I do need to log it as a receipt?  The moment I sell "Firearm A", which has become a C&R, I log it as a disposition.  So my log would have "Firearm A" with a disposition and receipt?


OR

If I obtained a '03 FFL after the purchase of non-C&R "Firearm A", the year "Firearm A" becomes C&R eligible, I don't need to log it as a receipt?  The moment I sell "Firearm A", which has become a C&R, I don't need to log it as a disposition.  So my log would have no entries for "Firearm A"?

Regarding, "According to the ATF agent he had to document those acquisitions as well because he got a discount because of the license.  Also, they told him to document all of his firearms in the bound book", wow I didn't know that.

Thanks for taking time to reply.

So to clarify the responses to my scenario if I obtained a '03 FFL after the purchase of non-C&R "Firearm A", the year "Firearm A" becomes C&R eligible, I don't need to log it as a receipt? 
The moment I sell "Firearm A", which has become a C&R, I log it as a disposition.  So my log would have "Firearm A" with a disposition but no receipt?

OR

If I obtained a '03 FFL after the purchase of non-C&R "Firearm A", the year "Firearm A" becomes C&R eligible, I do need to log it as a receipt?  The moment I sell "Firearm A", which has become a C&R, I log it as a disposition.  So my log would have "Firearm A" with a disposition and receipt?


OR

If I obtained a '03 FFL after the purchase of non-C&R "Firearm A", the year "Firearm A" becomes C&R eligible, I don't need to log it as a receipt?  The moment I sell "Firearm A", which has become a C&R, I don't need to log it as a disposition.  So my log would have no entries for "Firearm A"?

Regarding, "According to the ATF agent he had to document those acquisitions as well because he got a discount because of the license.  Also, they told him to document all of his firearms in the bound book", wow I didn't know that.

Once you get your 03 FFL, log all currently owned C&R firearms along with accurate acquisition information (when, where, from whom, justification for it being C&R like copy of ATF book with it, etc.). 

When the subject non-C&R firearm "crosses over" and becomes a C&R, do the same thing:  enter it in the book with all acquisition details.

Now you are set if you transfer any of these C&R's. 

Remember, even if you acquired them outside of your C&R license, enter them in the book and annotate them as such. 

Then if you transfer them, you'll do a regular transfer like any other non-C&R firearm for those acquired outside the 03 license. 

All those added to the collection under the 03 FFL will be transferred appropriately.  The bound book takes the place of the ATF form 4473, so you won't have to do the 4473 for any sale to non-licensed buyers.

Lot's of if-then-elses. 

Summary:  Once you have the C&R FFL, you must log ALL C&R firearms you have in your possession regardless of when/how you got them.  Do that, and the rest is going to be based on the situation.

If you transfer a C&R to a buyer in another state, you'll still have to ship to a dealer FFL there for an unlicensed buyer.  If you are selling to another C&R licensee, you can ship to him directly.  For in-state transfers, it's your duty to ensure the transfer follows state law, such as permit to acquire, waiting period, etc.

Thanks again for the clarification.