Quote from: vooduchikn on October 24, 2011, 10:18:49 PM

Quote from: 42itus on October 24, 2011, 10:09:54 PM

I think it's enough.  It's up to the owner to use common sense and exercise good judgement.

What is "enough"?

The class?

What if you can't afford it? Should you then not be able to defend yourself and family?

What if you can't afford to wait? Should the same apply?

Please clarify for the group.

This is always a hot topic and it should be.

"shall not be infringed"

I thought the class was enough.  Necessary?  Probably not.  I've learned most of what I know by surrounding myself by people with experience (2ahawaii.com, friends at the range) and practicing at home.  What I don't get is why is it so easy to acquire a rifle in comparison?

I don't know if you interepreted my post as an agreement with the current policy for having to take a class and wait.  I don't.  The 2 weeks doesn't make sense to me.  After the first one, maybe.  Every subsequent purchase?  I don't get it.

Even the first check doesn't make fiscal sense.  A NICS check takes 30 seconds from the dealer, no FRU, no police, no going multiple times to a place that knows nothing about the laws. Do you think that the SOH does some thorough background check? No they do the same thing a NICS does. That's instant in most states.

It's about control and discouragement. If I had a list of all the pistols I would have bought if I didn't because i would have to wait 14 days and go through the goat rope...well, it would be it's own thread. I only bought my most recent purchase (Glock 20SF -10mm) because OGC beat EVERY PRICE ON EARTH. Otherwise, I would have waited. Gotta have my 10MM long slide in time for deer season at my next residence.

Imagine all the manpower, money, time, and effort that the state requires for something that the majority of the US uses instead..and it takes about 30 seconds...2 minutes if your gun shop is cheap and on dial up.

And you wonder why we have pot holes everywhere? Misappropriation of funds based on a system that came before instant checks? Yes, I think so.

FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE?  I think so.

Let me give you some insight on a simple story. I had a buddy that left here and had purchased and registered firearms here in the state six months before he went back to the mainland. His car was broken into and firearms stolen. He did not have the serial numbers, so he went back to the SOH and guess what?  They could produce no paperwork. How about that for accountability and proficiency?

Thoughts?

Control and discouragement.  That pretty much sums it up.  Has it always been like this?  Seems like it will only get more difficult in the future.  When one pays for the Handgun Safety Course, where does that money go?  Entirely to the instructors?

On a somewhat unrelated note, is it the same hassle to renew your permit to acquire?

Control and discouragement.  That pretty much sums it up.  Has it always been like this?  Seems like it will only get more difficult in the future.  When one pays for the Handgun Safety Course, where does that money go?  Entirely to the instructors?

On a somewhat unrelated note, is it the same hassle to renew your permit to acquire?

Yes, each time you buy a pistol or re-new your long arms permit.

Seems silly huh and not unrelated at all.

Quote from: 42itus on October 24, 2011, 10:09:54 PM

I think it's enough.  It's up to the owner to use common sense and exercise good judgement.

What is "enough"?

The class?

What if you can't afford it? Should you then not be able to defend yourself and family?

What if you can't afford to wait? Should the same apply?

Please clarify for the group.

This is always a hot topic and it should be.

"shall not be infringed"

In the spirit of debate, most people take anywhere from 10-18 years of training to exercise their first amendment rights.

Even the first check doesn't make fiscal sense.  A NICS check takes 30 seconds from the dealer, no FRU, no police, no going multiple times to a place that knows nothing about the laws. Do you think that the SOH does some thorough background check? No they do the same thing a NICS does. That's instant in most states.

It's about control and discouragement. If I had a list of all the pistols I would have bought if I didn't because i would have to wait 14 days and go through the goat rope...well, it would be it's own thread. I only bought my most recent purchase (Glock 20SF -10mm) because OGC beat EVERY PRICE ON EARTH. Otherwise, I would have waited. Gotta have my 10MM long slide in time for deer season at my next residence.

Imagine all the manpower, money, time, and effort that the state requires for something that the majority of the US uses instead..and it takes about 30 seconds...2 minutes if your gun shop is cheap and on dial up.

And you wonder why we have pot holes everywhere? Misappropriation of funds based on a system that came before instant checks? Yes, I think so.

FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE?  I think so.

Let me give you some insight on a simple story. I had a buddy that left here and had purchased and registered firearms here in the state six months before he went back to the mainland. His car was broken into and firearms stolen. He did not have the serial numbers, so he went back to the SOH and guess what?  They could produce no paperwork. How about that for accountability and proficiency?

Thoughts?

Sorry for my ignorance  but what is "NICS" check and "FRU"? All I'm aware of is the HCJDC or Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center which had a turnaround time of at least a week 20 years ago by snail mail.I would have to expect that the background check includes a look-see into any federal criminal charges and/or convictions as well  offenses and/or criminal convictions in all 50 states. I would also  have to expect that t there are one or more "clearing houses" for all of this information which is automated.

I love how the hamburger option is leading the poll.
 

I knew I should have voted for Hamburger. Really, you'd have to madate days, and maybe weeks, of bootcamp style firearms training to prevent the behavior the OP is talking about.

The NICS check is the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. It gets run every time you buy a firearm on a Form 4473. It's the national standard for background checks.

There are those who are unsafe. Will additional training help? I don't know, and in some cases, I doubt it. 

I heard that a guy put his rifle in his soft case at the range the other day, facing downrange thank God, and pulled the trigger.  Blew the front off the case...  he didn't clear his rifle.
Also, during the ceasefire, a guy leaves his pump shotgun with the bolt closed on the table.  The RO asks him to open the bolt, he says I don't know how to open it without pulling the trigger....
The RO opens it up to find 3 more rounds in the magtube!

I don't opine that there needs to be mandated training to acquire, however, I do feel in is one responsibility to train oneself to handle and operated a dangerous tool properly and safely.


You can’t legislate against stupidity.

You can’t legislate against stupidity.

ain't that the truth!   

There are those who are unsafe. Will additional training help? I don't know, and in some cases, I doubt it. 

I heard that a guy put his rifle in his soft case at the range the other day, facing downrange thank God, and pulled the trigger.  Blew the front off the case...  he didn't clear his rifle.
Also, during the ceasefire, a guy leaves his pump shotgun with the bolt closed on the table.  The RO asks him to open the bolt, he says I don't know how to open it without pulling the trigger....
The RO opens it up to find 3 more rounds in the magtube!

I don't opine that there needs to be mandated training to acquire, however, I do feel in is one responsibility to train oneself to handle and operated a dangerous tool properly and safely.


You can’t legislate against stupidity.

There is also no dumbass vaccine.

i'm not sure but from what i've seen my pistol qual is good enough for HPD for now.

I havent finished reading the thread yet so this might have been adressed. I think i spelled addressed wrong? Any ways they guys at YG said the military training had to be within one year and that i still had to be in the military. Not sure how true this but they still let me buy pistols and HPD still let me register them. Maybe they over looked it? Not sure but i do know that my trainin is less than a year old.

Thats the same thing i heard the guys at YG saying as well.  You can use your military paperwork thing (dont know what its called) only as long as your in the military.  After your out its no longer valid.  Dunno if its true but thats what he was telling the guy. 

Travboi were you at young guns yesterday afternoon?

Quote from: Aegis808 on October 24, 2011, 03:21:52 PM

i'm not sure but from what i've seen my pistol qual is good enough for HPD for now.

I havent finished reading the thread yet so this might have been adressed. I think i spelled addressed wrong? Any ways they guys at YG said the military training had to be within one year and that i still had to be in the military. Not sure how true this but they still let me buy pistols and HPD still let me register them. Maybe they over looked it? Not sure but i do know that my trainin is less than a year old.

What did you give HPD to verify that you met the training requirements when you applied for your Permit to Acquire?

- Alex

Quote from: Travboi on October 25, 2011, 09:41:29 AM

Quote from: Aegis808 on October 24, 2011, 03:21:52 PM

i'm not sure but from what i've seen my pistol qual is good enough for HPD for now.

I havent finished reading the thread yet so this might have been adressed. I think i spelled addressed wrong? Any ways they guys at YG said the military training had to be within one year and that i still had to be in the military. Not sure how true this but they still let me buy pistols and HPD still let me register them. Maybe they over looked it? Not sure but i do know that my trainin is less than a year old.

What did you give HPD to verify that you met the training requirements when you applied for your Permit to Acquire?

- Alex

You have to have your command write a letter saying the date you have taken the course. That has to be endorsed with the state stamp or whatevers. HPD allowed me to use mine without being active duty still. Didnt pay too much attention. I have facial hair and earrings now  lol  I will take a picture of it later today and post it.

I was not at YG yesterday, but i will be there today. Im picking up my new guns.

This is the guidance from HPD's website:

The training requirement may be fulfilled by submitting a letter from their commander or firearms training officer which must:

Be typed;
Include the commander’s or training officer’s name, rank , address, and telephone number;
Include a detailed description of the type of training the applicant received and, the date of training;
Include a statement that indicates the applicant successfully completed the firearms training course and can handle and operate a firearm in a safe manner;
Be attested to by the commander or firearms trraing officer;
Be notarized by a  State of Hawaii Notary Public

I know that HPD's website is often a poor source for what the law actually says, but I would feel fairly confident assuming that what it says on the site is what they're training their officers on, and is therefore "correct" as far as the firearms division is concerned.

Talk to your branch of service's version of a Yeoman (navy office dude); they probably have the letter saved on their computers, and they can just plug in your particulars and route it to the skipper for signing.  At least in the Navy, the XO is an authorized notary public, so depending on how relaxed your command atmosphere is, getting your letter signed/notarized should be a fairly simple process.  Of course, I'm in the Navy, and the submarine navy at that, so it may be more difficult for other branches that don't routinely walk into the Old Man's office and say, "Hey, Skipper, you got a minute to sign this letter for me?" YMMV!

This is the guidance from HPD's website:

Quote

The training requirement may be fulfilled by submitting a letter from their commander or firearms training officer which must:

Be typed;
Include the commander’s or training officer’s name, rank , address, and telephone number;
Include a detailed description of the type of training the applicant received and, the date of training;
Include a statement that indicates the applicant successfully completed the firearms training course and can handle and operate a firearm in a safe manner;
Be attested to by the commander or firearms trraing officer;
Be notarized by a  State of Hawaii Notary Public

I know that HPD's website is often a poor source for what the law actually says, but I would feel fairly confident assuming that what it says on the site is what they're training their officers on, and is therefore "correct" as far as the firearms division is concerned.

Talk to your branch of service's version of a Yeoman (navy office dude); they probably have the letter saved on their computers, and they can just plug in your particulars and route it to the skipper for signing.  At least in the Navy, the XO is an authorized notary public, so depending on how relaxed your command atmosphere is, getting your letter signed/notarized should be a fairly simple process.  Of course, I'm in the Navy, and the submarine navy at that, so it may be more difficult for other branches that don't routinely walk into the Old Man's office and say, "Hey, Skipper, you got a minute to sign this letter for me?" YMMV!

The admin office is where i went. And an O-3 had the notarizing stamp and the authorization to sign.

You have to have your command write a letter saying the date you have taken the course. That has to be endorsed with the state stamp or whatevers. HPD allowed me to use mine without being active duty still. Didnt pay too much attention. I have facial hair and earrings now  lol  I will take a picture of it later today and post it.

I was not at YG yesterday, but i will be there today. Im picking up my new guns.

I don't need a picture. I've seen my fair share of Affidavits of Training. I was just curious what you used specifically.

- Alex

Quote from: Heavies on October 25, 2011, 02:53:11 AM

There are those who are unsafe. Will additional training help? I don't know, and in some cases, I doubt it. 

I heard that a guy put his rifle in his soft case at the range the other day, facing downrange thank God, and pulled the trigger.  Blew the front off the case...  he didn't clear his rifle.
Also, during the ceasefire, a guy leaves his pump shotgun with the bolt closed on the table.  The RO asks him to open the bolt, he says I don't know how to open it without pulling the trigger....
The RO opens it up to find 3 more rounds in the magtube!

I don't opine that there needs to be mandated training to acquire, however, I do feel in is one responsibility to train oneself to handle and operated a dangerous tool properly and safely.


You can’t legislate against stupidity.

There is also no dumbass vaccine.

Yes there is.  It is a 22lr to the back of the head, but the State of Hawaii won't allow it.

Id like to take a class that is focused on the weapon itself, safe operation, how it works/take apart, understanding gun terms. 
Sounds like i need a mentor or 2.  Any volunteers.  Hahahahaha.

Id like to take a class that is focused on the weapon itself, safe operation, how it works/take apart, understanding gun terms. 
Sounds like i need a mentor or 2.  Any volunteers.  Hahahahaha.

You're welcome to come shooting with me when I go to kokohead.

I've been shooting for over 30 years and have taken numerous safety and training courses over the years