"Bernie Sanders Pledges To Repeal Pro-Gun Law He Helped Pass"

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/01/28/3743802/bernie-sanders-plcaa/

I like a lot of the issues he champions such as single payer healthcare, financial reform, auditing the military industrial complex (corporate welfare death machine), and dialing back the over-reaching constitution-shredding surveillance state. By now, thought, it's pretty obvious that nobody will ever make that much of a difference in the Oval Office because mega-donors will always choose the occupants for us. If Clinton doesn't end up going to jail for her Top-Secret email leaks then the Democratic Party will certainly give her the nomination no matter what their members want (one of the reasons I'll never check "D" again). Even if Bernie won I'm pretty sure TPTB would find a way to clip his balls and keep him harmless.

My mind knows this already, but I still used to catch myself secretly cheering on Bernie from time to time. Until now. This silly pandering to gun-grabbing Identity Politics is just plain stupidity sold to clueless urbanites who have been brainwashed by the media into having the same opinions as everyone else, regardless if it makes any sense or not.

Could you sue Chevy because your ex-girlfriend tried to run you down in her legally-obtained properly-functioning Tahoe? Obviously no, because it sets a horrible precedent that makes sale/distribution impossible for any product that could conceivably kill or injure someone, from jetliners to Beanie Babies. The reason gun makers and sellers are specifically protected is becasue the level of spam lawsuits would be through the roof thanks to lawyers playing on media hype and uninformed public sentiment. Shameless pandering is the calling card of just-another-establishment-candidate. Someone easy to buy, control, and manipulate. 

Sometimes I think about voting Trump just to crash the whole system and get it over with. If he hadn't opened his mouth about travel-banning the second largest religion in the world I'd still consider it.
 
But for now... big thanks to Bernie for snapping me back into disillusionment. Already got sucked into that hopey-changey crap with Obama even though I knew better back then. At least you saved me the trouble this time around.

I don't want Bernie but I would take him over Hillary any day.

I don't want Bernie but I would take him over Hillary any day.

That's like choosing whether you want to be burned to death, or hung. What a choice!

I don't want Bernie but I would take him over Hillary any day.

A confirmation of which side this character is on to no one's surprise.

The problem is we are conditioned to see politics as "taking sides" like it's a damn football game. That makes it easy to put up two false choices and play off the people against each other. Hillary's presidency would be indistinguishable from pretty much all the Republicans besides Trump. The only difference would be a few social issues meant to play the public off against each other like gun control, abortion, and gay marriage. That turned out to be pretty much the only difference between Bush and Obama as well. Business as usual while things continue to get worse all around us.

Already got sucked into that hopey-changey crap with Obama even though I knew better back then. At least you saved me the trouble this time around.

Thanks for voting for Obama. Thanks a lot. We'll think of you fondly for the next 30 or 40 years each time Sotomayor and Kagan rule against our rights to keep and bear arms. 

The lesson here is don't vote and nobody can blame you for anything.

If you can but don't vote, then you can be blamed for everything.

I want to put something out here.

I welcome our liberal leaning members here in our efforts to fight for our 2a constitutional rights.

I realized something seeing EFF at the last Capitol get together.  The right to bear arms is something that both liberal leaning and conservative leaving folks can get together about.

We need to consider that this is not a left or right issue but an issue for all o us.

Let's keep personalities and bashing of left or right out of this discussion and focus solely on getting our 2a constitutional rights back.

The right to bear arms is something that both liberal leaning and conservative leaving folks can get together about.

I beg to disagree,  the liberal "2A supporters" keep bleating that the anti gun stuff never goes anywhere, so why worry?

I call B.S.  As was pointed out, only one more Supreme Court justice of the sort Obola appointed is needed for a total nut-cutting of our 2A rights. 

The liberals want to play poker with that for their "other"  issues.  They play with my rights at their peril.  I am too old and pissed off enough.

Sorry let me clarify my statement... I meant that I am willing to work with the gun-toting liberals who are regulars on this forum.

I may disagree with them on other topics but I think we find common ground and work together towards our rights to bear arms.   As far as scope, I am only referring to local Hawaii.

Regarding other issues clouding the voting choices of the liberals here, that's something they need to internally think about.  Would they trade our rights to bear arms for a higher salary or a promotion for example?  I think this internal dialogue is something that everyone should think about whether they are liberal or conservative leaning.   This internal reflection also applies to one's choice of political candidates.

In Hawaii, we have to see beyond the R or the D labels because we actually do have some Ds that are pro gun. One group tends to lean one direction more than the other.  But we also have one or two Rs that have somehow turned their coats over so we need to deal with this on a case by case basis.

A confirmation of which side this character is on to no one's surprise.

Apparently you cannot tell the difference between saying which of two bad options is less worse and actually endorsing a candidate

That's like choosing whether you want to be burned to death, or hung. What a choice!

True, but I am sure that if you had to choose, one would be less worse than the other right? I know I would rather be hung than burned to death.

I can't even believe this conversation is taking place in the United States of America. Much less on a 2A forum.

Bernie Sanders is an admitted, enthusiastic and committed socialist.

Hitler was also a committed and enthusiastic socialist. No, he was NOT a fascist. You're thinking of Benito Mussolini, the Italian dictator and founder of fascism. Hitler enlisted him as an ally in WW II, hence the confusion.

National Socialist Workers Party, Nazi for short, from the German spelling. Yep, Hitler was a socialist. In fact, if you look at his political stances of the time, they're eerily similar to what the democrats are promoting today. Not just on gun control either. They were against "The rich", which to them were the Jews { they also represented about 1% of the population. Familiar? }. They also enacted "free" healthcare, public education { through college } which resulted in a tax rate of about 80%. "Free" childcare, 24/7 { because everyone had to work to pay the heavy tax burden } and promoted abortion as a means of birth control amongst the races not considered "pure".

Hitler was "Left wing" not right wing. Even a cursory look at his policies proves it.

The entire democratic party has given up even the pretense of being anything but socialist by putting Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders up for the office of President.

This should scare the shit out of everyone with a brain.

This is the problem.  People thinking they have to settle. 

It's like erosion........ Ah no worries, then one year your house falls off the cliff. 

Bernie is a socialist.  Trump is a rino running a campaign just like Obama.  Dazzle dazzle, no substance.  That foo ain't conservative, he's pals with NY crooks.

HELLO!  If they're getting lots of airtime, and actually make it to the big dance they're establishment approved.

Look at what the RNC did to Ron Paul last time....

Kennedy was a democrat.  Everyone after that, well, I dunno what to call them other than what South Park calls them.....

Bernie Sanders is an admitted, enthusiastic and committed socialist.

Hitler was also a committed and enthusiastic socialist. No, he was NOT a fascist. You're thinking of Benito Mussolini, the Italian dictator and founder of fascism. Hitler enlisted him as an ally in WW II, hence the confusion.

Now this is where we start to board the crazy train in terms of arguments, making the leap from a rational discussion to all sorts of unintelligent associations.

Yes Sanders is a socialist (democratic socialist) and yes Hitler was a socialist but comparing two different people in something so complex is idiotic. How about a very simplified example of how silly the logic is.

You are a man. Hitler was a man. Therefore you must be like Hitler.

It is a stupid argument and it is a scare tactic. Being a socialist does not mean you will be anything like Hitler (in terms of the horrendous things he did). I am tired of these stupid, fear mongering arguments that oversimplify the situation and convince the feeble minded so easily. The republicans do it, the democrats do it, and too many people are swayed. You know what else, I bet Hitler liked hamburgers. Do you like hamburgers? I know that if we go down the list I could find some socialized program that you would support but I certainly wouldn't compare you to Hitler for it.

If you are against socialism as a political ideology, fine, state why. But the instant you revert to mentioning Hitler is the point your arguments lose intelligence. If socialism is so poor a system then the argument can be made without mentioning Hitler. Otherwise you end up using the "Argumentum ad Hitlerum" fallacy.

I am not trying to attack you personally, a lot of people use this type of reasoning and I hate it. You just happened to be the one to interject it into the conversation.

And for clarification, I do not support Bernie Sanders and I am not going to vote for him. My pet peeve Is stupid, empty, cheap arguments.

I am not trying to attack you personally, a lot of people use this type of reasoning and I hate it. You just happened to be the one to interject it into the conversation.

And for clarification, I do not support Bernie Sanders and I am not going to vote for him. My pet peeve Is stupid, empty, cheap arguments.

Bullshit. You are attacking me personally. You've just called me "Crazy" and "Unintelligent", somehow I don't take that as a compliment.

Further, you did it while avoiding the entire point of my post, which was to bring attention to the parallels between Hitler's "National" socialistic policies and the "Democratic" socialistic policies promoted by Sanders and the democratic party that we know today. 

Not that there aren't similarities between the two. Both are, or were, men of mediocre intellect, little accomplishments { which they blamed on others } and grandiose ideals they intend to foist on those around them. But I digress.

Whether you put nationalist, democratic or unicornlovingbuttfuckingcrazy in front of it, the operative word is socialist. It doesn't matter if it's proposed by Sanders, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot or Obama, the end result is still the same: loss of freedom for the people of the country that adopts it. It is an ideology that has failed, and continues to fail, everywhere it's been tried. Yes, that includes the EU. Their unemployment numbers speak for themselves, for example.

Please spare me the "Socialism isn't Communism" argument. Socialism is just the "PC" term for communism. The goal remains the same, control of the population, and all it produces, by the state and an "Elite" few. Also. "Just a few socialist policies won't destroy the country" is yet more BS. It's like being "a little bit" pregnant or "just slightly" HIV positive. Once it starts, you end up with the whole enchilada on your plate, like what we face in this country now. It's inevitable.

You know what my pet peeve is? Idiots that won't open a few books, read them, and take some pertinent lessons from history in order to save us from repeating the same stupid mistakes in perpetuity.

I don't give a fuck if you support Sanders, your argument is specious.

Bullshit. You are attacking me personally. You've just called me "Crazy" and "Unintelligent", somehow I don't take that as a compliment.

ed, he also said "idiotic" and "stupid"
 

we are pHuooked
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/31110934/cruz-defeats-trump-in-iowa-caucuses-clinton-and-sanders-in-virtual-tie

Bullshit. You are attacking me personally. You've just called me "Crazy" and "Unintelligent", somehow I don't take that as a compliment.

Further, you did it while avoiding the entire point of my post, which was to bring attention to the parallels between Hitler's "National" socialistic policies and the "Democratic" socialistic policies promoted by Sanders and the democratic party that we know today. 

Not that there aren't similarities between the two. Both are, or were, men of mediocre intellect, little accomplishments { which they blamed on others } and grandiose ideals they intend to foist on those around them. But I digress.

Whether you put nationalist, democratic or unicornlovingbuttfuckingcrazy in front of it, the operative word is socialist. It doesn't matter if it's proposed by Sanders, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot or Obama, the end result is still the same: loss of freedom for the people of the country that adopts it. It is an ideology that has failed, and continues to fail, everywhere it's been tried. Yes, that includes the EU. Their unemployment numbers speak for themselves, for example.

Please spare me the "Socialism isn't Communism" argument. Socialism is just the "PC" term for communism. The goal remains the same, control of the population, and all it produces, by the state and an "Elite" few. Also. "Just a few socialist policies won't destroy the country" is yet more BS. It's like being "a little bit" pregnant or "just slightly" HIV positive. Once it starts, you end up with the whole enchilada on your plate, like what we face in this country now. It's inevitable.

You know what my pet peeve is? Idiots that won't open a few books, read them, and take some pertinent lessons from history in order to save us from repeating the same stupid mistakes in perpetuity.

I don't give a fuck if you support Sanders, your argument is specious.

I called the type of argument you used crazy and unintelligent. I think you have enough intelligence to be above that.

You cannot just lump all types of socialism in the same boat because there are different forms with significant differences. And just because one socialist system had a murderous dictator to do horrible things does not mean all socialism will have such an outcome. The logic is just plain flawed. If we apply your logic then we must conclude that our own political system is also bad because it had slavery, discrimination, etc etc.

Hitler being a genocidal maniac is something that existed independent of him being a socialist.

Since you seem to think things are so black and white then do you favor getting rid of any and all socialist systems in this country? No more free K-12 education. Perhaps you think that the police should be a private force where they only work for people who pay for protection? No public parks of libraries. Privatize the military while we are at it? I don't want full on socialism but I cannot deny that some of what makes this country so great are socialistic programs.