unfortunate! but ok

its not like we can take bets to see who is more correct 30 years from now....
wait... can we?

There will not be any smooth transition from Kiewit to whoever wins the next segment of rail. 

The scuttlebutt has been for quite some time that Kiewit would not bid the next phase of the rail project.

Will the next part of rail cost more............probably just because you are getting into the more dense urban core than Kapolei and Waipahu.  Deceptive, I dunno about that.  If you want the price just take HARTs estimates and bump them up 50%+.

I was told that Kiewit has not bid for the second half of the project. The bids are already in. I was told that Kiewit is losing money on this project. How true that is I cannot say.

The first half of the concrete guideway columns were mostly drilled into dry, above the water table, shafts where the bedrock was less than or around 100' in depth. Shafts can be drilled in a day or two and use just a drill rig. The second half of the of the concrete guideway columns are almost all wet shafts, drilled below the water table, with depths of 200' plus. Shafts will take a week plus to drill and requires specialized drilling equipment to deal with the wet conditions in the shafts. This does not include much larger and heavier cranes that are required and more Union Operators and Union Laborers to operate the additional equipment. Yeah, it could take a minimum of 2 or 3 times longer just to build the second half. That translates into a minimum of 2-3 times higher costs over the first half. Probably more like 4-5 times IMHO. Whether the more urban area has any affect on the cost, I can't say.

To me, it doesn't look good. We were sold a bill of goods and we are going to pay dearly. And I wouldn't be surprised if the 0.50% GET increase finds its way to the outer islands eventually.

years ago a friend of mine used to work at foremost dairies right along the proposed rail line. they were building another building and loading dock which he could see out of his office. he watched as they would piledrive concrete pylons and they would suddenly disappear into the ground one after the other. i've heard there are voids and underground water tables throughout the area. how much of this is true and what it would affect, i don't know.

years ago a friend of mine used to work at foremost dairies right along the proposed rail line. they were building another building and loading dock which he could see out of his office. he watched as they would piledrive concrete pylons and they would suddenly disappear into the ground one after the other. i've heard there are voids and underground water tables throughout the area. how much of this is true and what it would affect, i don't know.

years ago a friend of mine used to work at foremost dairies right along the proposed rail line. they were building another building and loading dock which he could see out of his office. he watched as they would piledrive concrete pylons and they would suddenly disappear into the ground one after the other. i've heard there are voids and underground water tables throughout the area. how much of this is true and what it would affect, i don't know.

Quote

Quote from: GZire on April 12, 2016, 06:29:45 PM

The rail line is fixed.  People aren't going to catch a bus to catch a train to catch a bus.  They are going to catch a bus straight to their destination.  Unless your destination lies along the rail you realistically won't use it.

Not true, when I lived in Japan I had to take two trains. If it is designed well and runs smoothly it works. People just have to get over their laziness.

I was told that Kiewit has not bid for the second half of the project. The bids are already in. I was told that Kiewit is losing money on this project. How true that is I cannot say.

The first half of the concrete guideway columns were mostly drilled into dry, above the water table, shafts where the bedrock was less than or around 100' in depth. Shafts can be drilled in a day or two and use just a drill rig. The second half of the of the concrete guideway columns are almost all wet shafts, drilled below the water table, with depths of 200' plus. Shafts will take a week plus to drill and requires specialized drilling equipment to deal with the wet conditions in the shafts. This does not include much larger and heavier cranes that are required and more Union Operators and Union Laborers to operate the additional equipment. Yeah, it could take a minimum of 2 or 3 times longer just to build the second half. That translates into a minimum of 2-3 times higher costs over the first half. Probably more like 4-5 times IMHO. Whether the more urban area has any affect on the cost, I can't say.

To me, it doesn't look good. We were sold a bill of goods and we are going to pay dearly. And I wouldn't be surprised if the 0.50% GET increase finds its way to the outer islands eventually.

years ago a friend of mine used to work at foremost dairies right along the proposed rail line. they were building another building and loading dock which he could see out of his office. he watched as they would piledrive concrete pylons and they would suddenly disappear into the ground one after the other. i've heard there are voids and underground water tables throughout the area. how much of this is true and what it would affect, i don't know.

The rail line is fixed.  People aren't going to catch a bus to catch a train to catch a bus.  They are going to catch a bus straight to their destination.  Unless your destination lies along the rail you realistically won't use it.

Not true, when I lived in Japan I had to take two trains. If it is designed well and runs smoothly it works. People just have to get over their laziness.

With regards to the initial shafts being dry, not true. 

A serious amount of the shafts are wet and most likely deeper than 100'.  Also the methodology selected by HART was to oscillate the temp/permanent casing in.  This adds a major amount of time and cost into both ends of the shaft construction.  You're more like a week a shaft than 2 days and certainly not 1 day.  I do agree that the next phase will be more difficult and costly as you get into Honolulu proper.

I don't see the 1/2% tax making it off island, Rail is a Honolulu problem and don't see how the other counties would give in or be forced to also charge the tax.  My great fear is the tax goes away and now the people have to make the difference up in property value taxes.

I worked on the first 130 or 140 shafts from Kroc Center to out along Farrington to Fort Weaver Road. All of them are dry and most are well under 100' with a handful just over 100'. We didn't see a wet shaft until we got out into Waipahu on the Diamond Head side of Fort Weaver Road. Most of the shafts from there on out are wet shafts.

All of the wet shafts are deeper than 100'. Your time frame for the wet shafts being a week is correct. On the first 130-140 shafts Kiewit was pouring concrete in a shaft a day. Unless we hit bedrock sooner than expected. In which case it took 2 days to drill and place concrete. I was there. Everyday. Also, we had two drill crews working. So some days we would place concrete in 2 shafts a day. Again, I was there.
I have never seen in my lifetime a temporary tax that did not become permanent at some point. So I believe the half percent tax hike is a permanent tax rate for us. Not saying it can't happen but I doubt it will ever go away. I agree I am afraid our property taxes will probably go up because of this. If they don't increase property taxes to the outer islands will we see an exodus to the outer islands? Just a thought.

so.........basically you're saying we the taxpayers all getting the shaft but, some are dry and some are wet? i'll take mines lubed please!   

 

I worked on the first 130 or 140 shafts from Kroc Center to out along Farrington to Fort Weaver Road. All of them are dry and most are well under 100' with a handful just over 100'. We didn't see a wet shaft until we got out into Waipahu on the Diamond Head side of Fort Weaver Road. Most of the shafts from there on out are wet shafts.

All of the wet shafts are deeper than 100'. Your time frame for the wet shafts being a week is correct. On the first 130-140 shafts Kiewit was pouring concrete in a shaft a day. Unless we hit bedrock sooner than expected. In which case it took 2 days to drill and place concrete. I was there. Everyday. Also, we had two drill crews working. So some days we would place concrete in 2 shafts a day. Again, I was there.
I have never seen in my lifetime a temporary tax that did not become permanent at some point. So I believe the half percent tax hike is a permanent tax rate for us. Not saying it can't happen but I doubt it will ever go away. I agree I am afraid our property taxes will probably go up because of this. If they don't increase property taxes to the outer islands will we see an exodus to the outer islands? Just a thought.

I C about the earlier shafts, I didn't really look at them until they got into Waipahu.

Pouring two a day is good, but most likely you guys are completing, flocking, cleaning, testing, then pouring........pain in the butt, but what's spec'd.

I fear you are right about the tax being permanent, but I'd rather see that than my property tax go up.  At least there's more people to share in the pain.  Personally I think we should take the legislators', Mayors', Govs' pensions for all those that supported rail and apply that to the overruns.

Not true, when I lived in Japan I had to take two trains. If it is designed well and runs smoothly it works. People just have to get over their laziness.



Two completely different scenarios.  The one you just mentioned is like catching a plane to catch a connecting flight.  Totally within reason.

With Oahu why would anyone expect someone to catch a bus to catch a train to catch a bus to their destination?  It won't happen and it's nothing about laziness it's about efficiency of time and cost.

What about having bike racks on the trains!
or people racks?!

on another note, India loves their trains!