NRA Basic Pistol Course (Read 10433 times)

HBS1

NRA Basic Pistol Course
« on: May 05, 2016, 01:18:50 PM »
Perhaps a topic already discussed, but I am in the dark about the NRA discontinuing the Basic Pistol Course.  The NRA instructors portal says this course is no longer available after 5/15/16, and there does not appear to be the student training packets available for order in the online store.  The note on the site says something about the course is replaced by a Part 1 and Part 2 pistol course. 

zippz

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2016, 01:45:51 PM »
As of May 15, the old cirriculum is no longer valid, so you cannot use the old packets.  You can mail them back to the NRA for a refund.

The new system is Phase 1 students pay $60 and do an online course and are mailed their packets.  They then search the NRA site for a phase 2 classroom portion which you teach.  There is more information in the instructor portal along with the Phase 2 lesson plan and phase 1 online portion you can go through yourself.

Hawaii On Target

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Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2016, 04:21:35 PM »
Not to mention the challenge of finding a range facility to conduct the live fire portion of Phase II at the known distances required by the Phase II curriculum.  Koko Head pistol range doesn't cut it.  Gotta be in the action bays.  :-(
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aieahound

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2016, 05:34:35 PM »
State law doesn't change for classroom / range time / requirements does it ?

oldfart

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2016, 05:40:56 PM »
As i understand. It the law specifies topics and class time.
Then it specifies minimum range time.
And that it be taught by an nra certified instructor.
It does not specify the nra course.
What, Me Worry?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2016, 06:52:15 PM »
As i understand. It the law specifies topics and class time.
Then it specifies minimum range time.
And that it be taught by an nra certified instructor.
It does not specify the nra course.

^^ That   **OR** take the Hunter Education Course for free with no live fire training.   :wacko:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

oldfart

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2016, 08:43:38 PM »
^^ That   **OR** take the Hunter Education Course for free with no live fire training.   :wacko:
...
Yep. Smh :shake:
What, Me Worry?

Duenas0326

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2016, 12:00:35 AM »
^^ That   **OR** take the Hunter Education Course for free with no live fire training.   :wacko:
The Hunter's Ed classes get filled up rather quickly. Although, I've heard that you can go down to the Nimitz office where the class is held at least 2 hours before the start of the class. They'll accept walk-ins I suppose in case of cancellations. I've also heard that the classes get filled up due to a lot of people that WANT to take the class (bcuz its free) and the "anti-gun" people that just want to fill the blank spaces so no one else can sign up. Fortunately, I took mine back in 88' knowing that someday it would benefit me later.  :shaka: :thumbsup:

CTVP9

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2016, 08:03:51 AM »
The Hunter's Ed classes get filled up rather quickly. Although, I've heard that you can go down to the Nimitz office where the class is held at least 2 hours before the start of the class. They'll accept walk-ins I suppose in case of cancellations. I've also heard that the classes get filled up due to a lot of people that WANT to take the class (bcuz its free) and the "anti-gun" people that just want to fill the blank spaces so no one else can sign up. Fortunately, I took mine back in 88' knowing that someday it would benefit me later.  :shaka: :thumbsup:
[/quote

I took the Hunter's Ed class back in Sept.  Their awesome group of instructors took as many walk-ins as they could squeeze into the classroom.  I wasn't a walk-in, but it was cool to see that they tried to accommodate as many as possible.  Not sure about the anti-gun people rumor.  There were just a handful of no shows.
If you're failing to plan, then you're planning to fail.

Duenas0326

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2016, 08:07:49 AM »
The Hunter's Ed classes get filled up rather quickly. Although, I've heard that you can go down to the Nimitz office where the class is held at least 2 hours before the start of the class. They'll accept walk-ins I suppose in case of cancellations. I've also heard that the classes get filled up due to a lot of people that WANT to take the class (bcuz its free) and the "anti-gun" people that just want to fill the blank spaces so no one else can sign up. Fortunately, I took mine back in 88' knowing that someday it would benefit me later.  :shaka: :thumbsup:
[/quote

I took the Hunter's Ed class back in Sept.  Their awesome group of instructors took as many walk-ins as they could squeeze into the classroom.  I wasn't a walk-in, but it was cool to see that they tried to accommodate as many as possible.  Not sure about the anti-gun people rumor.  There were just a handful of no shows.
Yea the instructors are AWESOME!!! They have the mindset that they're there to teach and to have a maximum amount of students in the class. Yea, the rumor is true to my knowledge, they're afraid that there's to much people with guns. What they don't know is there's a shitload of us that own guns. Lol

Jl808

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2016, 08:55:35 AM »
^^ That   **OR** take the Hunter Education Course for free with no live fire training.   :wacko:

The Hunter Education Course is great and it's free.  Take both!
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Drakiir84

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2016, 11:47:54 AM »
Personally I've moved away from official NRA classes because it just isn't economically feasible.  I'm recycling the old books and print out my own tests for the students to complete.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 03:31:51 PM by Drakiir84 »
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

Surf

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2016, 05:54:12 PM »
As mentioned the law does not mandate that it must specifically be an NRA course, it only states that the firearms training or safety course be conducted by "a state certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor or a certified military firearms instructor". 

Quote
(4)  A firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor or a certified military firearms instructor that provides, at a minimum, a total of at least two hours of firing training at a firing range and a total of at least four hours of classroom instruction, which may include a video, that focuses on:

         (A)  The safe use, handling, and storage of firearms and firearm safety in the home; and
         (B)  Education on the firearm laws of the State.

nhtango

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2016, 09:16:01 PM »
So, essentially, what I'm gathering is that as long as I remain the SME and certified by the NRA, I can continue to teach a curriculum that emphasizes safety and not so much the NRA Course in it's recommended form? As long as it conforms to the state's requirements?

Doesn't that short the customer? They cannot, then, claim to have taken the NRA Basic Pistol Course, but just a state required course?

I may have drank too much NRA kool-aid, so I cannot understand why someone would want to take a course that isn't sponsored by the NRA.
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor
USMC Combat Marksmanship Trainer
USMC Combat Marksmanship Coach

Tom_G

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2016, 09:36:59 PM »
So, essentially, what I'm gathering is that as long as I remain the SME and certified by the NRA, I can continue to teach a curriculum that emphasizes safety and not so much the NRA Course in it's recommended form? As long as it conforms to the state's requirements?

Doesn't that short the customer? They cannot, then, claim to have taken the NRA Basic Pistol Course, but just a state required course?

I may have drank too much NRA kool-aid, so I cannot understand why someone would want to take a course that isn't sponsored by the NRA.

Well, what you say is true, but incomplete.

If you stop teaching NRA courses, your certification as an NRA instructor will lapse after a year.  After that, you will no longer be eligible to teach under state law.

As far as shorting the customer, NRA did that.  You, as an instructor, have your hard costs reduced by $11, the amount it takes took to purchase a student's packet from NRA.  All your other costs remain: ammo, firearm depreciation and maintenance, possibly snacks, liability insurance, etc.  So whatever you charge for your classes just went down by $11.

However, the student now has to spend an additional $60, plus a genuinely appalling number of online hours, to pass Phase 1 before they can then move on to paying you and taking your Phase 2 class.  From the student perspective, the cost has risen, the time required to complete the class has increased, and the scheduling has become more complicated.

I'm a fan of the NRA Kool-Aid, but they have really made a mess of this.  Not to mention the fact that there is no class for Training Counselors to make new Trainers under the new system.  And, of course, handgun is the ONLY class available.  Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloader, etc. are all "pending."

Offer an NRA Home Firearm Safety class once a year: that will keep your certifications fresh with NRA.  Then make up your own class, or start photocopying NRA's old materials.  Either way, NRA has really done a bang-up job of distancing themselves from Hawaii's particular needs.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Surf

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2016, 09:38:55 PM »
So, essentially, what I'm gathering is that as long as I remain the SME and certified by the NRA, I can continue to teach a curriculum that emphasizes safety and not so much the NRA Course in it's recommended form? As long as it conforms to the state's requirements?

Doesn't that short the customer? They cannot, then, claim to have taken the NRA Basic Pistol Course, but just a state required course?

I may have drank too much NRA kool-aid, so I cannot understand why someone would want to take a course that isn't sponsored by the NRA.
I hate to assume what is in the head of any of our lawmakers when it comes to the topic of anything firearms related as they are often THE most under educated individuals, however if you look at what the law states as quoted above, it could potentially be interpreted that anyone who is certified by the State, by the NRA or by the Military, that the instructor in question would be sufficiently knowledgeable to be able to conduct basic firearms safety course that meets the requirements of the State of Hawaii.  I am not sure why you are confusing this with specifically an NRA basic pistol course?  The Hawaii permit to acquire is a Hawaii certified course, for a specific need.  If someone wants a certification from a NRA course, then take an NRA certified course.   

I am an NRA Benefactor lifetime member that holds a number of NRA instructor certifications.  At the same time I will be the first to say that while the NRA is a solid foundation for instruction or a baseline for an instructor, it is very much a minimum baseline of competency and nothing more and all of my NRA instructor certs, I consider them to be the most basic of all my professional credentials.  This does not mean that someone who holds an NRA certification is only baseline competent, but if that is all that they have for credentials, especially on the civilian side of certifications, then I would be suspect of that instructor when it comes to anything more than basic instruction.  This does not mean that anyone with the NRALE certifications are super wonderful either.  So while it is a good baseline, indeed you may be sipping too much of the Kool-Aid.

zippz

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2016, 01:24:27 AM »
If you decide to give a non-NRA course, I suggest putting together the course curriculum such as slides, syllabus, exam, etc in case there's an investigation later where you have to show what was taught in class.  None of the class materials can have the NRA logo or contain copyright material.

HiCarry

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2016, 12:06:00 PM »
I hate to assume what is in the head of any of our lawmakers when it comes to the topic of anything firearms related as they are often THE most under educated individuals, however if you look at what the law states as quoted above, it could potentially be interpreted that anyone who is certified by the State, by the NRA or by the Military, that the instructor in question would be sufficiently knowledgeable to be able to conduct basic firearms safety course that meets the requirements of the State of Hawaii.  I am not sure why you are confusing this with specifically an NRA basic pistol course?  The Hawaii permit to acquire is a Hawaii certified course, for a specific need.  If someone wants a certification from a NRA course, then take an NRA certified course.   

I am an NRA Benefactor lifetime member that holds a number of NRA instructor certifications.  At the same time I will be the first to say that while the NRA is a solid foundation for instruction or a baseline for an instructor, it is very much a minimum baseline of competency and nothing more and all of my NRA instructor certs, I consider them to be the most basic of all my professional credentials.  This does not mean that someone who holds an NRA certification is only baseline competent, but if that is all that they have for credentials, especially on the civilian side of certifications, then I would be suspect of that instructor when it comes to anything more than basic instruction.  This does not mean that anyone with the NRALE certifications are super wonderful either.  So while it is a good baseline, indeed you may be sipping too much of the Kool-Aid.

There is no "Hawaii certified course" just the statutory requirements necessary to make a student eligible to purchase a handgun in Hawaii.

Tom G explained the issue well and like him, I think NRA is (pardon the pun) shooting itself in the foot with this change. That being the case, some folks just like saying they took an "NRA course."

Surf

Re: NRA Basic Pistol Course
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2016, 05:16:42 PM »
If you decide to give a non-NRA course, I suggest putting together the course curriculum such as slides, syllabus, exam, etc in case there's an investigation later where you have to show what was taught in class.  None of the class materials can have the NRA logo or contain copyright material.
I agree.  I would hope that anyone certified to teach this course would understand potential liability issues, but you never know.

There is no "Hawaii certified course" just the statutory requirements necessary to make a student eligible to purchase a handgun in Hawaii.

Tom G explained the issue well and like him, I think NRA is (pardon the pun) shooting itself in the foot with this change. That being the case, some folks just like saying they took an "NRA course."
Yes, the certification / affidavit that the State recognizes.  Poor way of phrasing it. 

I also understand that there are people who like to say that they took an NRA course and there is nothing wrong with that.  The point was, that many people believe that the course must be an NRA course, which we know that the State does not specifically mandate that the course be an NRA course.  Is it easier?  Perhaps.  Materials and curriculum are pre-packaged, test done, instructors get credit and NRA is widely recognized. 

Despite my NRA certifications being what I consider basic, I am very happy to have them as the NRA name carries a lot of weight and is understood even by the layman.  This also works as a negative as some people genuinely believe that seeking an NRA instructor / course is the pinnacle, when this is not the case.  A good foundation, but but not even close to the peak.  I do often suggest an NRA course to others if I cannot suggest a specific instructor / training company that is near them.