I can't seem to "easily" find anything regarding the maximum number of rounds you are allowed to have in your shotgun in Hawaii.  I have heard conflicting data from different people and was just wondering if someone could direct me to the law, if any, which addresses this.

My understanding is that the law refers to 'detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol'.  If you have a detachable magazine that could be used in a 'pistol', your limited to 10 rounds like any other.  In you have a tube magazine I presume you can have as many rounds as you want.  However, IANAL.

My understanding is that the law refers to 'detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol'.  If you have a detachable magazine that could be used in a 'pistol', your limited to 10 rounds like any other.  In you have a tube magazine I presume you can have as many rounds as you want.  However, IANAL.

I think you're correct, Mantis.  AFAIK, the only reason that 30 round AR mags are verboten is because there are AR pistol variants.  A shotgun with a tube magazine should be good to go.  A semi-auto shotgun with a detachable magazine should also be good to go, so long as some crazy dude hasn't made a pistol version of your trusty old 12 gauge.  IAASL  (I Am A Sea Lawyer)

So what about Saiga-12 drums?

Until someone makes a handgun that accepts Saiga-12 30 round drums, you should be fine.

Until someone makes a handgun that accepts Saiga-12 30 round drums, you should be fine.

Just remember that a handgun is 'any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition'.  HRS 134-1.  If someone's made a short barreled Saiga, then they've made a handgun as defined by the State of Hawaii.

Quote from: Tom_G on November 23, 2011, 11:24:58 PM

Until someone makes a handgun that accepts Saiga-12 30 round drums, you should be fine.

Just remember that a handgun is 'any firearm of any shape with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length and capable of discharging loaded ammunition'.  HRS 134-1.  If someone's made a short barreled Saiga, then they've made a handgun as defined by the State of Hawaii.

And that's certainly happened

Technically the short barreled Saiga 12 is a pistol, but I think since it is not commercially manufactured this way they don't count.  You have to have a custom conversion and NFA registration for this type of shotgun which is not legal in Hawaii. I know that you can buy hi cap mags and drums from gun shops here in Hawaii so i assume that is legal. (for now...)
Here is a link to HRS134 definitions

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0001.htm

all HRS 134 statutes

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/

bpries, there has been a lot of discussion on this topic in various threads around here.  The statutes don't talk about "commercially manufactured."  What they say is:

...of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited...

Which, in any literal translation, means that if anyone, anywhere, anywhen has managed to fit that magazine into a pistol version of a gun, regardless of whether or not they made it themselves and it was the only one ever to exist on the planet, then you are in violation of the law. 

Now, HPD has made it clear that they are not currently enforcing the law on guns which are not allowed to be sold in Hawaii.  However, that assurance has been verbal only, and never in writing.  I've been in Gun Source and listened to Tony call HPD on the speaker phone to ask them about AR-15 mags.  The person he spoke to said words to the effect of "Why do you keep calling?  It's fine."  But HPD does not make policy on what's vogue to prosecute, the DA does. 

So, yes, there are gun stores here that sell 30 round magazines for AK, AR, and other rifle platforms for which pistol variants, commercially manufactured pistol variants, exist.  That does not make it legal.  That only means that selling the mags isn't illegal.  Possessing them, on the other hand, clearly is.

Are the police going to come knocking on your door, demanding to see your magazines and proof that you've had them blocked?  No.  If you run afoul of the law on a firearms-related charge, will the DA throw that charge in just to make sure something sticks?  Maybe.  If you show up at HPD or the shooting range with an illegal mag and get called on it, will they take the mag away on the spot?  Yes, I've seen it happen at both places. 

Never, ever equate the fact that you can do something with the fact that it is legal.  I've seen butterfly knives for sale at the gun show.  In another thread here, you'll see people advising me where, on this island, I can buy expanding batons.  Both of these are illegal in Hawaii. 

Tom I think you hit the nail on the head. Assumptions are never a good idea.

We have hammered this question pretty extensively, in numerous threads, numerous times.

That only means that selling the mags isn't illegal.  Possessing them, on the other hand, clearly is.

I do not believe this to be true.

The applicable section of the HRS reads:
      §134-8  Ownership, etc., of automatic firearms, silencers, etc., prohibited; penalties.  (a)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of any of the following is prohibited:  assault pistols, except as provided by section 134-4(e); automatic firearms; rifles with barrel lengths less than sixteen inches; shotguns with barrel lengths less than eighteen inches; cannons; mufflers, silencers, or devices for deadening or muffling the sound of discharged firearms; hand grenades, dynamite, blasting caps, bombs, or bombshells, or other explosives; or any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof coated with teflon or any other similar coating designed primarily to enhance its capability to penetrate metal or pierce protective armor; and any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof designed or intended to explode or segment upon impact with its target.
     (b)  Any person who installs, removes, or alters a firearm part with the intent to convert the firearm to an automatic firearm shall be deemed to have manufactured an automatic firearm in violation of subsection (a).
     (c)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited.  This subsection shall not apply to magazines originally designed to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition which have been modified to accept no more than ten rounds and which are not capable of being readily restored to a capacity of more than ten rounds.
     (d)  Any person violating subsection (a) or (b) shall be guilty of a class C felony and shall be imprisoned for a term of five years without probation.  Any person violating subsection (c) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1989, c 261, §6 and c 263, §4; am L 1992, c 286, §§3, 4]



Subsection c clearly states:   (c)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited.

Subsection d states:   "Any person violating subsection (c) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony."

As I read the law, "if" it were illegal, every gun store owner would be guilty of hundreds of misdemeanors.