Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims (Read 6573 times)

punaperson

Similar issues in many non-muslim countries created by those fleeing their civilization/other muslims for one reason or another.

Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2016/0530/Sweden-stirs-debate-with-women-only-swimming-in-nod-to-Muslims

Excerpt:

As Muslims become a larger part of Swedish society, some municipal pools are offering women-only swimming to accommodate the new arrivals. But while well intended, the new policy is bumping up against Swedish ideals of equality.

And that is raising a much larger issue for Sweden. Should the native population adjust to immigrant groups' different lifestyles by accommodating women-only swimming and the like, thus providing access to Muslim newcomers who would otherwise not feel comfortable in gender-equal conditions? Or does the implementation of such segregation, however well intended, ultimately undermine the country's hard-earned traditions of gender equality.

Many Swedes are no longer sure. “During the past several years, we've had several Muslim women come and swim,” says Stockholm resident Carolina Johansson, who has gone to women's-only sessions at a local swimming pool for the past 20 years. “But gender-separated swimming doesn't feel like a positive development.”

[I also see in the article that a "Green" muslim politician resigned rather than shake hands with women. That's a real "progressive" for you! "No GMOs, or herbicides, or fossil fuels, or shaking hands with women!"]

* * * * *

In searching for muslim scholarship on when it is "allowable" for a woman to not cover her face, in the long list of conditions/circumstances mentioned (e.g. during a marriage proposal when the suitor needs to determine if the woman is ugly and/or fat), neither swimming nor showering are included. God apparently put a LOT of thought into exactly when and where the female face needs to be covered or not, but failed to consider swimming or showering. I guess even God is forgetful or shortsighted. Or something. I know... I'm going to hell, probably missing my head.

https://islamqa.info/en/2198

omnigun

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 12:45:30 PM »
This whole mass immigration pretty dumb and will be the downfall of europe. We might be one of the few super powers left.  They don't need women only swimming they need to close the borders and mass deport.

Just watch this

eyeeatingfish

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 03:09:22 AM »
Is this a belief held by all types of Muslims though? Some of the reprehensible beliefs attributed to Muslims end up only belonging to certain groups of Muslims.

As I understand it not all Muslims even accept Sharia Law which is what sets a lot of these restrictive rules. Is separate swimming something all Muslims want or only a subset of them?

punaperson

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2016, 07:07:53 AM »
Is this a belief held by all types of Muslims though? Some of the reprehensible beliefs attributed to Muslims end up only belonging to certain groups of Muslims.
I doubt that in a group of one billion people you will find total unananimity of opinion about very many topics of their religious interpretation (especially those as arcane as when and under what conditions a female may expose her face to others) of someone else'e interpretation of some book(s) some guys wrote hundreds or thousands of years ago about what "god" "inspired" them to believe. The point is that a country that has no past history at all of such beliefs (including not shaking hands with women, etc.) is altering the laws of their country in order to accommodate whatever-the-number-is of foreigners who refuse to assimilate into the culture they chose to emigrate to. How many "infidel" head-loppers does it take to spoil your day? Do the math... say one-half of one percent (.5%) of a billion...

As I understand it not all Muslims even accept Sharia Law which is what sets a lot of these restrictive rules. Is separate swimming something all Muslims want or only a subset of them?
Whether the "subset" is one percent or ninety-nine percent, Sweden is changing their laws to accommodate that extremely small group of people. You should watch the BBC documentary about "Dating in Iran". The woman reporter from the UK was "assigned" an "interpreter" by the government (be sure to note the "interpreters" comments while lecturing a college class on the immorality of American women for dating several men before marriage), who accompanied her everywhere she went. She mentions once during the program that she could not ask questions about numerous topics (sex, etc.) because, well, it's Iran, they're muslims, and that's not allowed. What's obvious throughout the entire program is what is not being said: every single move by all these people is being monitored by the government to be in accord with the laws of the theocracy and there is no room for nor tolerance of those of other "views". Not a single person in the whole program is anything other than a serious devotee of islam, and obviously, no homosexuals are looking for partners in Iran, because there are no homosexuals in Iran (though a cynic might argue that there are possibly a couple of gay people in Iran who are "in the closet" due to their fear of being thrown off a tall building, as prescribed by muslim holy literature). Allahu akbar!! The phrase Allahu Akbar is written on the Iranian flag, as called for by Article 18 of Iran's constitution. The phrase appears 22 times on the flag.  :wtf:

PeaShooter

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2016, 07:33:56 AM »
I'm okay with it as long as they let me peep. :rofl:

Jl808

Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2016, 10:20:40 AM »
Just say you're a tranny. :crazy:
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eyeeatingfish

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2016, 09:53:33 PM »
I doubt that in a group of one billion people you will find total unananimity of opinion about very many topics of their religious interpretation (especially those as arcane as when and under what conditions a female may expose her face to others) of someone else'e interpretation of some book(s) some guys wrote hundreds or thousands of years ago about what "god" "inspired" them to believe. The point is that a country that has no past history at all of such beliefs (including not shaking hands with women, etc.) is altering the laws of their country in order to accommodate whatever-the-number-is of foreigners who refuse to assimilate into the culture they chose to emigrate to. How many "infidel" head-loppers does it take to spoil your day? Do the math... say one-half of one percent (.5%) of a billion...
Whether the "subset" is one percent or ninety-nine percent, Sweden is changing their laws to accommodate that extremely small group of people. You should watch the BBC documentary about "Dating in Iran". The woman reporter from the UK was "assigned" an "interpreter" by the government (be sure to note the "interpreters" comments while lecturing a college class on the immorality of American women for dating several men before marriage), who accompanied her everywhere she went. She mentions once during the program that she could not ask questions about numerous topics (sex, etc.) because, well, it's Iran, they're muslims, and that's not allowed. What's obvious throughout the entire program is what is not being said: every single move by all these people is being monitored by the government to be in accord with the laws of the theocracy and there is no room for nor tolerance of those of other "views". Not a single person in the whole program is anything other than a serious devotee of islam, and obviously, no homosexuals are looking for partners in Iran, because there are no homosexuals in Iran (though a cynic might argue that there are possibly a couple of gay people in Iran who are "in the closet" due to their fear of being thrown off a tall building, as prescribed by muslim holy literature). Allahu akbar!! The phrase Allahu Akbar is written on the Iranian flag, as called for by Article 18 of Iran's constitution. The phrase appears 22 times on the flag.  :wtf:

Interesting, I had to look at the Iranian flag to check that one out!

I was actually interested in what percentage of muslims held these beliefs, not whether they were justified in modifying the culture for them.

In all the discussions people have about muslims and islam it ends up that people often have misconceptions and misunderstandings.

punaperson

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2016, 06:47:14 AM »
Interesting, I had to look at the Iranian flag to check that one out!

I was actually interested in what percentage of muslims held these beliefs, not whether they were justified in modifying the culture for them.
How would you find that out? Are you going to submit a required questionnaire to a billion people and assume they all return it and answer honestly? Do you think any poll of a group of muslims will come up with an accurate percentage of honest answers to questions like "Do you believe that infidels [nonbelievers] ought to be subject to random violence and beheading as prescribed by the prophet? allahu akbar!"? No one knows what that percentage is regarding any issue in islam, that's why I said above, even if it's less than 1/2 of 1 percent, when you apply that small percentage to a billion muslims, you get a shitload of trouble. You might as well ask Hawaii gun owners "Have you ever violated any Hawaii law regarding firearms (e.g. stopped at the gas station on the way to or from the range, etc.)? Who's gonna answer "Yes. I've violated the law"?

In all the discussions people have about muslims and islam it ends up that people often have misconceptions and misunderstandings.
The muslims or the nonmuslims?

PeaShooter

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2016, 07:06:07 AM »
That's pretty much what most people involved with the "social sciences" believe, which he seems to be a part of. Their whole "academic" world revolves around doing "studies" whose raw "data" is completely sourced from questionnaires that they assume to be answered honestly. Even when it's clear there is incentive to lie, or have no incentive to tell the truth, or even take the time to participate. The fields of psychology and psychiatry are the most guilty of this.

Anyway what's Allahu Akbar is that this guy:             

eyeeatingfish

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2016, 12:42:43 PM »
How would you find that out? Are you going to submit a required questionnaire to a billion people and assume they all return it and answer honestly? Do you think any poll of a group of muslims will come up with an accurate percentage of honest answers to questions like "Do you believe that infidels [nonbelievers] ought to be subject to random violence and beheading as prescribed by the prophet? allahu akbar!"? No one knows what that percentage is regarding any issue in islam, that's why I said above, even if it's less than 1/2 of 1 percent, when you apply that small percentage to a billion muslims, you get a shitload of trouble. You might as well ask Hawaii gun owners "Have you ever violated any Hawaii law regarding firearms (e.g. stopped at the gas station on the way to or from the range, etc.)? Who's gonna answer "Yes. I've violated the law"?
The muslims or the nonmuslims?

Individual opinions would be more difficult to obtain but I was thinking more along the lines of different sects of Islam and perhaps even Islam as it exists in different countries or cultures.

Reason being is that it begs the question of whether it is fair to lump them all together. If a particular sect of Islam rejects sharia law and that sect makes up 50% of Muslims worldwide then it would be misleading to make blanket statements about muslims using sharia law. In one specific example I remember a news report that had addressed the genital mutilation issue. It was pointed out that genital mutilation was not a tenant of Islam but a cultural practice of a small group of muslims in a certain country. That report was done because other news stories had apparently presented that genital mutilation as some evidence of how bad Islam was.

Since this is a big topic that stands to only get bigger and more complex, it is important to understand the group of people better so we can better pick out threats and better respect those who are not threats.  I hope to avoid another issue along the lines we had with Japanese Americans during WW2 (a worst case scenario)

Surveys can play a role in data gathering and believe it or not can be done in ways to increase honesty but that is not what I had in mind and is a different topic.

punaperson

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2016, 06:32:14 AM »
Here are some articles about polling and surveys (live links at site) of muslims about relevant issues:

http://ibloga.blogspot.in/2016/06/ucla-shooter-mainak-sarkars-religion.html


 
Game Over, Pew Poll Reveals Majority of Muslims Are Anything But "Moderate"
Game Over, The Muslim Melting Pot
Game Over: Sharia Law Statistics
Game Over II: Poll of Egyptians Shows 84% Want Apostates Stoned to Death
Game Over III: 78% of British Muslims Want Limits On Free Speech When It Comes To Criticizing Religion
Game Over IV: 75% of Egyptian-Americans Who Vote In Egyptian Elections Vote For Muslim Brotherhood Candidate
Game Over V: Majority of Muslims In Islamic Countries Want Laws Strictly on the Koran
Game Over VI: Danish Imam Defects, Declaring, "The truth is that there is not a single mosque or Muslim organization in Denmark that is not run by Islamists"
Game Over VII: One In Three Men In Devout Muslim Pakistan Say Raping Boys Is Acceptable
GAME OVER VIII: European Poll Reveals 2/3rds of Muslims Believe Sharia More Important Than European Laws
GAME OVER IX: Are Muslims IN GENERAL, Moderate, Or Not? Statistics Say HELL NO
GAME OVER X: Al-Azhar University Says, ISIS Not Apostates
GAME OVER XI: Al Jazeera Poll Shows 80% of Muslims Support ISIS
GAME OVER XII: 51% OF AMERICAN MUSLIMS WANT SHARIA
GAME OVER XIII - PEW POLL SAYS 42% OF MUSLIM YOUTH IN FRANCE SUPPORT SUICIDE BOMBING NO MATTER WHAT
GAME OVER --- PEW Poll Shows Upwards of 287 million ISIS supporters in just 11 countries including 1/3 of Syria Refugees
Game Over: Large Percentages of Muslims All Over The World Want Sharia To Be The Law of the Land
GAME OVER: Poll Reveals, 21% of Turks Believe ISIS Represents Islam
GAME OVER: Poll Says 25% Of British Muslims Want To Live Under Sharia Law
GAME OVER: 2/3 Of British Muslims Wouldn’t Tell Gov’t About A Terror Plot

punaperson

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2016, 06:55:41 AM »
Article with reference to a longer article:

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/04/by-the-way-syrian-refugees-almost-sank-swedens-welfare-state/

By the way, Syrian refugees almost sank Sweden’s welfare state

In Sweden, there initially was little since the country has historically taken in many refugees across various countries, and it has a very liberal refugee policy. Yet, it’s one where the resources of the state have been pushed to the brink, where new restrictive policies have been adopted to curb the cost of housing the latest influx of refugees, especially from Syria, and where the whole attitude towards refugees has devolved into a debate that’s fractured this society, along with the rest of the European continent.

James Taub wrote in Foreign Policy in February about Sweden’s dalliance with Syrian refugees that have led to “the death of the most generous nation on Earth.”

eyeeatingfish

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2016, 11:00:31 AM »
Interesting the disparity of how many muslims support sharia.

punaperson

Re: Sweden stirs debate with women-only swimming, in nod to Muslims
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2016, 05:23:07 PM »
Don't forget about the United States of America:

http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2015/09/game-over-xii-51-of-american-muslims.html

51% OF AMERICAN MUSLIMS WANT SHARIA

61% SAY MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT BE GOVERNED BY AMERICAN LAW,

20% SAY VIOLENCE SHOULD BE USED TO ESTABLISH SHARIA LAW IN AMERICA

From the Center for Security Policy:

Overall, the survey, which was conducted by The Polling Company for the Center for Security Policy (CSP), suggests that a substantial number of Muslims living in the United States see the country very differently than does the population overall.

The sentiments of the latter were sampled in late May in another CSP-commissioned Polling Company nationwide survey.

According to the just-released survey of Muslims, a majority (51%) agreed that “Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to shariah.”

When that question was put to the broader U.S. population, the overwhelming majority held that shariah should not displace the U.S. Constitution (86% to 2%).

More than half (51%) of U.S. Muslims polled also believe either that they should have the choice of American or shariah courts, or that they should have their own tribunals to apply shariah.

Only 39% of those polled said that Muslims in the U.S. should be subject to American courts.
 

These notions were powerfully rejected by the broader population according to the Center’s earlier national survey. It found by a margin of 92%-2% that Muslims should be subject to the same courts as other citizens, rather than have their own courts and tribunals here in the U.S.

Even more troubling, is the fact that nearly a quarter of the Muslims polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.”

By contrast, the broader survey found that a 63% majority of those sampled said that “the freedom to engage in expression that offends Muslims or anybody else is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and cannot be restricted.”
 
Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country.