I was watching a YouTube video last night from one of the pro CZ shooters.  Two things stood out.  1) his view about different focus planes/points and 2) fully releasing the trigger after each shot. 



I mentioned the trigger reset part to a LE firearms instructor friend of mine in TX and he mentioned that's the "current" thinking.  I had never heard of it, so I Googled it and found a number of articles about it.  Here are a couple that I found:

https://www.hendonpub.com/tactical_response/articles/2013/0304/the_trigger_reset_method_controversy

http://blog.beretta.com/trigger-reset-dont-waste-your-time

I was taught to shoot from reset.  Eliminates unnecessary motion (economy of motion) that can throw off the gun's alignment.  The method described by the CZ shooter sounds to me like it would lead to a greater potential for slapping the trigger if you try to do it quickly. 

Well, things change over time and same for shooting techniques.  Changes in stance, grip, etc.  While I guess this is the current thing, I'd be interested to see how many people go in the "new" direction. 

it's true about sight pictures.
Not sure about trigger reset. I found that I tend to slap the trigger when I fully reset it in a rapid fire stage.

Some people are taught to fully release the trigger which is useful if you have to operate a variety of guns, including those you never used before.  You could get proficient with it if you practiced it.

Some people are taught to fully release the trigger which is useful if you have to operate a variety of guns, including those you never used before.  You could get proficient with it if you practiced it.

I have been trying to practice with my Glock. It is not easy after a lifetime of learning to fully release the trigger.

I have been trying to practice with my Glock. It is not easy after a lifetime of learning to fully release the trigger.

Do you mean lifetime of experience with revolvers? 

That was one discussion that I had with my buddy in TX (and other shooters as well).  Just to see, he went through a LE course with a revolver just to try, and having gotten so used to trigger reset from his days as a 1911 shooter and more recently as a Glock shooter, that the trigger manipulations of the revolver messed him up at first.  I mostly shoot my revolver at the silhouette range, so the pace of fire is quite slow and I got into the habit of fully releasing the trigger, finger off the trigger to cock the hammer, then back to prep the trigger. 

Do you mean lifetime of experience with revolvers? 

That was one discussion that I had with my buddy in TX (and other shooters as well).  Just to see, he went through a LE course with a revolver just to try, and having gotten so used to trigger reset from his days as a 1911 shooter and more recently as a Glock shooter, that the trigger manipulations of the revolver messed him up at first.  I mostly shoot my revolver at the silhouette range, so the pace of fire is quite slow and I got into the habit of fully releasing the trigger, finger off the trigger to cock the hammer, then back to prep the trigger.

Yes, I practice a lot and have a preference for revolvers. I shoot my revolvers mostly in double action mode as practice. The trigger pull is so long and the let off so long on my revolvers that I am not ready and surprised when my Glock trigger resets. It has been only maybe the last few years that I have been practicing trigger reset with my Glock. I just don't practice with it enough. 

Some people are taught to fully release the trigger which is useful if you have to operate a variety of guns, including those you never used before.  You could get proficient with it if you practiced it.

...
The first time somebody showed me the trigger reset trick on my glock, I thought it might be useful.
But now, not so much. Like zip sez, too many guns, not good. Also the loss of fine motor skills under stress, no good.

Yes, I practice a lot and have a preference for revolvers. I shoot my revolvers mostly in double action mode as practice. The trigger pull is so long and the let off so long on my revolvers that I am not ready and surprised when my Glock trigger resets. It has been only maybe the last few years that I have been practicing trigger reset with my Glock. I just don't practice with it enough. 

Gotcha. 

Yeah, the DA pull on my S&W 686 is long.  It's actually pretty smooth, but I could see that being something that messes me up being used to the triggers on my Glock, PPQ and other autos. 

Videos like this piss me off.  It's a 4 minute video, and we don't get to any actual information until the 1 minute mark! Gotta have the cool intro, gotta have the man talking about himself, gotta have b-roll of him opening the case for crissakes!  This piece could easily be cut down to the 60 seconds they spent getting started.

Videos like this piss me off.  It's a 4 minute video, and we don't get to any actual information until the 1 minute mark! Gotta have the cool intro, gotta have the man talking about himself, gotta have b-roll of him opening the case for crissakes!  This piece could easily be cut down to the 60 seconds they spent getting started.

i was waiting for the b-roll of the man hitting the buffet

There are indeed multiple sight pictures that can be used successfully for the situation that you are facing.  Time, distance to target, hit zone size, acceptable hits are some factors.  Say up close from 3-5 yards you may need maximum speed and only need hits in the A zone of say an IDPA or IPSC.  A skilled shooter may only need to target focus, looking through the sights with soft focus to achieve all A's.  As distance increases or acceptable hit zone shrinks alternate sight pictures up to and including pure front sight focus may become necessary. 

We often refer to it as "seeing what you need to see, to get the hits you need to get".  Again this can vary from person to person skill level dependent.  Understanding this about ourselves is important.  For many newer or lesser skilled shooters we of course advocate a stronger front sight focus. This is where we start with new shooters and hope to progress them into variations of sight pictures as skills increase.

Riding the trigger only to reset is not a good thing.  Pining the trigger is generally not a good thing.  We should be prepping the trigger and resetting and re-prepping the trigger during the recoil phase.  Once the sights lift we should be resetting the trigger and all of the pre-travel of the trigger should be removed.  We should now sbe at the edge of sear release so once the sights settle we should be breaking the next shot as needed.  This like many other things has caveats to it in that the trigger type or pull weight can be the more determining factor.  In general with say a Glock as an example, if you can hear the audible reset of the trigger after you fire each shot, your not doing this technique correct. 

Coming all the way off the trigger is of lesser importance and is very much trigger dependent.  With say a 1911 with a light trigger, short pre-travel, short sear movement, virtually no over travel, very short movement to reset and virtually no post travel, I will come all all the way off the trigger.  This is a pure technique and I do not refer to it as slapping the trigger.  That connotation is mostly taken poorly in context by a new shooter and replicated incorrectly because of this.  Now with a Glock I will go beyond actual reset but with so much post travel, I don't tend to lose contact with the face of the trigger.  It is a more precise technique IMO when it comes to precision, but it can take more technical skill.

I generally ignore any article that discusses "fine motor skills" as it is often misunderstood and presented or more so regurgitated from others in the incorrect manner that has been around shooting particularly LE and the psychology of body alarm, reptile brain, fight or flight response in humans.

This is a good thread that talks about vision and sight pictures.  Highly skilled shooters may naturally progress to these vision related techniques discussed in this thread on their own accord but may not actually know what they are doing from a technical aspect or description.  While getting a host of newer shooting enthusiasts is slowing down conversations quite a bit, pistol-forum has some of the most technically correct, cutting edge shooting information out there, especially for shooting handguns.  Probably one of the 3 technically best shooting forums out there.  There is a ton of great technical info in the resources areas or stickies. 

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?10210-Vision

Videos like this piss me off.  It's a 4 minute video, and we don't get to any actual information until the 1 minute mark! Gotta have the cool intro, gotta have the man talking about himself, gotta have b-roll of him opening the case for crissakes!  This piece could easily be cut down to the 60 seconds they spent getting started.

Have a scotch ready.  Take a sip and enjoy the flavor while you get through the foo-foo stuff.   

I am usually interested in the why's behind what people do or are advocating and he didn't do that here.  I was more watching for videos of CZs being shot, but those couple of things caught my attention. 

We are in a time of push button instant information / gratification.  Never mind the fluff, our time is precious we want our free information and we want it now.   I am a bit guilty of that myself. 

i was waiting for the b-roll of the man hitting the buffet

ROFLMAO...he is a well fed little guy, isn't he?

There are indeed multiple sight pictures that can be used successfully for the situation that you are facing.  Time, distance to target, hit zone size, acceptable hits are some factors.  Say up close from 3-5 yards you may need maximum speed and only need hits in the A zone of say an IDPA or IPSC.  A skilled shooter may only need to target focus, looking through the sights with soft focus to achieve all A's.  As distance increases or acceptable hit zone shrinks alternate sight pictures up to and including pure front sight focus may become necessary. 

We often refer to it as "seeing what you need to see, to get the hits you need to get".  Again this can vary from person to person skill level dependent.  Understanding this about ourselves is important.  For many newer or lesser skilled shooters we of course advocate a stronger front sight focus. This is where we start with new shooters and hope to progress them into variations of sight pictures as skills increase.

Riding the trigger only to reset is not a good thing.  Pining the trigger is generally not a good thing.  We should be prepping the trigger and resetting and re-prepping the trigger during the recoil phase.  Once the sights lift we should be resetting the trigger and all of the pre-travel of the trigger should be removed.  We should now sbe at the edge of sear release so once the sights settle we should be breaking the next shot as needed.  This like many other things has caveats to it in that the trigger type or pull weight can be the more determining factor.  In general with say a Glock as an example, if you can hear the audible reset of the trigger after you fire each shot, your not doing this technique correct. 

Coming all the way off the trigger is of lesser importance and is very much trigger dependent.  With say a 1911 with a light trigger, short pre-travel, short sear movement, virtually no over travel, very short movement to reset and virtually no post travel, I will come all all the way off the trigger.  This is a pure technique and I do not refer to it as slapping the trigger.  That connotation is mostly taken poorly in context by a new shooter and replicated incorrectly because of this.  Now with a Glock I will go beyond actual reset but with so much post travel, I don't tend to lose contact with the face of the trigger.  It is a more precise technique IMO when it comes to precision, but it can take more technical skill.

I generally ignore any article that discusses "fine motor skills" as it is often misunderstood and presented or more so regurgitated from others in the incorrect manner that has been around shooting particularly LE and the psychology of body alarm, reptile brain, fight or flight response in humans.

This is a good thread that talks about vision and sight pictures.  Highly skilled shooters may naturally progress to these vision related techniques discussed in this thread on their own accord but may not actually know what they are doing from a technical aspect or description.  While getting a host of newer shooting enthusiasts is slowing down conversations quite a bit, pistol-forum has some of the most technically correct, cutting edge shooting information out there, especially for shooting handguns.  Probably one of the 3 technically best shooting forums out there.  There is a ton of great technical info in the resources areas or stickies. 

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?10210-Vision

Good stuff.  I'll have to go back later when I have more time and read closer.   

Regarding the video mentioned above, I've shot with the focus on the target (fast and up close) and with the focus on the front sight (for accuracy, farther shots or smaller hit zones), but I don't think I tried the focus on all three (rear sight, front sight, target), at least I don't think.  I've have to try that one time.  I would think it would be more like partial/soft focus on all since they are in different planes.  With the focus on the target thing, I think for me, it's pretty close to point shooting for the really close shots.  However, that is something I notice mostly in competition and generally where I find myself going too fast going from the close targets and transition to the farther targets or targets with smaller hit zones (head shot only). 

I often catch myself riding the trigger back to reset when I shoot at the bullseye range.  I remember that was one thing Jason at RB1 hated (along with a Sig instructor that I don't recall his name), the part where if you're hearing/feeling the trigger reset after you've fired the shot.  I don't think I am doing that when I am in training and competition, but I haven't taken a video of myself in a while.  I hope bad habits aren't creeping in.   

This is a pure technique and I do not refer to it as slapping the trigger.  That connotation is mostly taken poorly in context by a new shooter and replicated incorrectly because of this.

   

That was my point about I envision that technique leading to slapping of the trigger, both taking it out of context and implemented in a way not intended.  Even for me, the more my finger comes off the trigger, I'd bet that would make me more prone to slapping the trigger.  At least at first.   

Now with a Glock I will go beyond actual reset but with so much post travel, I don't tend to lose contact with the face of the trigger.  It is a more precise technique IMO when it comes to precision, but it can take more technical skill.

 
That's a good description regarding not losing contact with face of trigger. 

i was waiting for the b-roll of the man hitting the buffet

ROFLMAO...he is a well fed little guy, isn't he?

He is pretty plump.  I would be interested in seeing how nimble he is in competition.  He needs to be decently nimble to get to Grandmaster. 

Fascinated by all the comments about his appearance rather than his sharing of shooting knowledge.
Irony is that most of us are sitting down typing and reading this.

I guess the path to reveling these types of personalities is already paved.
http://khon2.com/2016/05/31/pro-video-gamers-in-south-korea-given-same-praise-as-athletes/

Fascinated by all the comments about his appearance rather than his sharing of shooting knowledge.
Irony is that most of us are sitting down typing and reading this.

I guess the path to reveling these types of personalities is already paved.
http://khon2.com/2016/05/31/pro-video-gamers-in-south-korea-given-same-praise-as-athletes/

Not sure if I agree with the correlation.  That said, to me, skill is skill. 

I say, whatever works for you, over practice.

The weaver stance was initially considered super weird too, until others started using it.

And not everyone shoots best with weaver. So, again, back to whatever works for you.