Different Hawaiians want different things. Not everyone wants things to go back to the ancient ways. Some might want to be modern, but to be free to govern themselves. eyeeatingfish describes yet another possibility: those wanting everything be ancient if possible, but since they are stuck in the modern world, they must do modern things to survive.

That being said I don't have much sympathy for Hawaiians. They got conquered fair and square because they were weak. If America were tyrannical, that would be the end of it and they would be forced to say the pledge of allegiance.

But since America professes to be the land of the free, no one should be forced to say the pledge of allegiance.

I don't think using technology or infrastructure obligates them to a particular position. As ideated as their principles are, realistically they still have to fit into the current system to survive whether they like it or not.

The kid in the interview on the news stated that they were protesting the "system" by staying seated.  "System" a vague term used by an imbecile, the system more than includes the infrastructure and technology that they directly utilize and benefit from. This student's inability to elaborate on what exactly the system is or what parts of the system they were against indicates their juvenile understanding of their own situation.

Seen this a while back,

Different Hawaiians want different things. Not everyone wants things to go back to the ancient ways. Some might want to be modern, but to be free to govern themselves. eyeeatingfish describes yet another possibility: those wanting everything be ancient if possible, but since they are stuck in the modern world, they must do modern things to survive.

That being said I don't have much sympathy for Hawaiians. They got conquered fair and square because they were weak. If America were tyrannical, that would be the end of it and they would be forced to say the pledge of allegiance.

But since America professes to be the land of the free, no one should be forced to say the pledge of allegiance.

Yes, I understand that not all are like the example that I mentioned. Just an example that I remembered from experiences having public meetings.

When one is handed a gift without having to earn it, one tends to take such gifts for granted, lacking complete appreciation for its value.

The kid in the interview on the news stated that they were protesting the "system" by staying seated.  "System" a vague term used by an imbecile, the system more than includes the infrastructure and technology that they directly utilize and benefit from. This student's inability to elaborate on what exactly the system is or what parts of the system they were against indicates their juvenile understanding of their own situation.

Possibly. But we all know that TV news interviews often cut out a lot of information so I would hesitate to assume the kid has no idea what he is talking about. Inarticulate also does not mean unintelligent either. It is difficult to summarize the entire overthrow in a 15 second news interview.

Uh. Did you read anything I posted?

They don't want development. They want to go back to they way it was in ancient Hawaii, without the government  (federal, state, city, whatevers). Yet, they take advantage of the employment opportunities that private corporations offer. They take advantage of the infrastructure that government builds.  They are hypocrites. To the point where even others that they claim to be on their side want nothing to do with them.

When Hawaii was overthrown it was't "ancient." The palace had electrical lighting before the white house. They had a fairly modern functional government. So it would be a fallacy to assume that people who protest the overthrow just want a restoration of wearing a loin cloth and living off the land in an ahupuaa.

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Personally IMO, restoration to a Monarchy is not a modern functional government.

And less than that is not a restoration.

Personally IMO, restoration to a Monarchy is not a modern functional government.

And less than that is not a restoration.

As I understand it they did have an elected system of representatives, it was not a pure monarchy. I didn't mean it was modern by our definition but it was fairly modern for the era.

But either way, I doubt we would ever see a successful return to an Independent Hawaiian government. A lot of power to transfer over, too many conflicting interest, a question of who would be the actual monarch, etc.

I sympathize with the injustice that happened, but it already happened and we aren't going to change that. Dumping this government isn't going to guarantee any improvement. As much an injustice as it was, we still have a good system here of freedom, rights, and representation. Besides, if we are going to keep a record, then what about how Kamehameha the 1st violently took over all the islands, what about that injustice?

When Hawaii was overthrown it was't "ancient." The palace had electrical lighting before the white house. They had a fairly modern functional government. So it would be a fallacy to assume that people who protest the overthrow just want a restoration of wearing a loin cloth and living off the land in an ahupuaa.

an·cient
1. belonging to the very distant past and no longer in existence.

I didn't say anything about malos and the like. 

Fallacy to assume?  Those were the words of the people at the public meetings.  Not mine.  I could try to dig up the transcripts from those meetings as they were public testimony, but I doubt that would help.  You would just find another angle to "discuss".  I would encourage you to go to West Maui and talk to them yourself, but with your seemingly enjoyment and desire for arguing, I fear that you might return with less teeth. 

Again, not all of the people that submitted public testimony voiced such opinions.  To be honest, they probably were the minority, but they were a very vocal group and one that I remember.  So if getting their message out was the goal, it definitely succeeded.  However, just like this example, those who chose to no stand during the national anthem were the minority and they were certainly noticed.

There's nothing non-modern about having a King. Perhaps people in America believe that because we are brainwashed to believe that democracy is the only form of proper government. Aside from that, do we even have a true democracy in America? Even that point is arguable.

Democracy is the only proper form of government.......in The U.S. of A..   

Enjoy the Freedoms that the "brainwashed" bestowed upon us when they wrote the Constitution.

But that might be discussion for another thread. 

The Constitution is great, except for when our government doesn't follow it. Our 1A, 2A, and 4A rights are being eroded as we speak.

an·cient
1. belonging to the very distant past and no longer in existence.

I didn't say anything about malos and the like. 

Fallacy to assume?  Those were the words of the people at the public meetings.  Not mine.  I could try to dig up the transcripts from those meetings as they were public testimony, but I doubt that would help.  You would just find another angle to "discuss".  I would encourage you to go to West Maui and talk to them yourself, but with your seemingly enjoyment and desire for arguing, I fear that you might return with less teeth. 

Again, not all of the people that submitted public testimony voiced such opinions.  To be honest, they probably were the minority, but they were a very vocal group and one that I remember.  So if getting their message out was the goal, it definitely succeeded.  However, just like this example, those who chose to no stand during the national anthem were the minority and they were certainly noticed.

Sorry, I didn't mean the comments of those protestors specifically, I meant protestors on this issue in general.

I wouldn't consider the Hawaiian Kingdom when it was overthrown ancient, only about 130 years ago, but I get what you meant by ancient.

With youths there will always be dreamers and activism and they will find a topic to champion.  Kamehameha is no different and of no great surprise of what their topic of protest is about.  I do have my own beliefs on the Hawaii / Hawaiian topic, but I don't even come close to aligning with the extreme sovereign separatists.  As for the method of protest of the kids at the KS graduation, I personally think the manner in which they chose to make that statement sucks.  If my son were to do that at Kamehameha graduation, we would be having words afterwards.  However that is not something that would even be necessary due to our conversations on the topic of Hawaii and native Hawaiians in history and now.  FWIW, we are proud native Hawaiians, but we are also proud Americans.

Also, we are not a democracy.  They don't work.  We are a Constitutional Republic.  There is a huge difference between the two and we need to remain that way.  There is a reason that this very young country became such a huge, successful superpower in such a short period of time.  The more and more we start looking like a democracy or something worse, the closer we are to circling the toilet bowl with the rest of the turds. 

Constitutional Democracy, constitutional Republic.

Potato, potahto.

My Kirkland tissue is not Kleenex.

Same thing in common vernacular.

But that's a different discussion.

Constitutional Democracy, constitutional Republic.

Potato, potahto.

My Kirkland tissue is not Kleenex.

Same thing in common vernacular.

But that's a different discussion.

I can't find the link right now, but I remember seeing Kleenex actually makes Kirkland Tissues. 

 

Where on Google does it say Kirkland tissue is made by Kleenex?  Please post your sources!
 

Sarc 

Constitutional Democracy, constitutional Republic.

Potato, potahto.

My Kirkland tissue is not Kleenex.

Same thing in common vernacular.

But that's a different discussion.

Many of Kirkland products are just screw up batches of name brands, particularly with their liquor.