People often say refusing to vote for Trump is a vote for Clinton but I say it is the opposite. If you look at polls, most of them show that Clinton has a sizable lead over Trump so arguably a vote for Trump is a waste.

The media and politicians paint a false dichotomy in our voting options. They say the only options are Trump or Clinton and that not voting for one is essentially a vote for the other. They don't even mention a 3rd party or 3rd party candidates. If someone brings it up, they use circular reasoning to suggest a 3rd party can never win. I refuse to be bullied into thinking you don't have a choice.

What if instead, people voted for Gary Johnson? He could steal significant numbers from both democrats and republicans. 60% of Republicans didn't want Trump and Clinton's victory over Sanders was pretty close. If John could siphon off even half of those who don't like Trump or Clinton, he would be in a good spot. The libertarian platform which uses war sparingly and desire to decriminalize drugs could stand to draw a lot of hippies. Conservatives can already align with libertarians in terms of smaller government. If the media actually gave him any attention, and he made a good showing in a debate, I think he could take the election.

If all of Hawaii republicans voted for Gary Johnson that would send a huge message. We already know that Tump won't get Hawaii so why not send a message by voting Libertarian?

People often say refusing to vote for Trump is a vote for Clinton but I say it is the opposite. If you look at polls, most of them show that Clinton has a sizable lead over Trump so arguably a vote for Trump is a waste.

The media and politicians paint a false dichotomy in our voting options. They say the only options are Trump or Clinton and that not voting for one is essentially a vote for the other. They don't even mention a 3rd party or 3rd party candidates. If someone brings it up, they use circular reasoning to suggest a 3rd party can never win. I refuse to be bullied into thinking you don't have a choice.

What if instead, people voted for Gary Johnson? He could steal significant numbers from both democrats and republicans. 60% of Republicans didn't want Trump and Clinton's victory over Sanders was pretty close. If John could siphon off even half of those who don't like Trump or Clinton, he would be in a good spot. The libertarian platform which uses war sparingly and desire to decriminalize drugs could stand to draw a lot of hippies. Conservatives can already align with libertarians in terms of smaller government. If the media actually gave him any attention, and he made a good showing in a debate, I think he could take the election.

If all of Hawaii republicans voted for Gary Johnson that would send a huge message. We already know that Tump won't get Hawaii so why not send a message by voting Libertarian?

Ever hear of the electoral college?

Trump needs 67% of the electoral votes in battleground states.  There's NO WAY IN HELL Johnson would get that unless Trump drops dead and Hillary gets indicted before November.

The only message Hawaii will ever send is "We voted for Clinton the way Obama wanted us to.  Can we get Federal money to finish the rail, please?"

Trump needs 67% of the electoral votes in battleground states.  There's NO WAY IN HELL Johnson would get that unless Trump drops dead and Hillary gets indicted before November.

Agree to disagree. Not saying it would be easy but I think it would be possible. The major news sources don't seem to even give him the time of day. That would need to change.

Hawaii 2 electoral  votes won't matter, its over before the popular votes are counted here.

People often say refusing to vote for Trump is a vote for Clinton but I say it is the opposite. If you look at polls, most of them show that Clinton has a sizable lead over Trump so arguably a vote for Trump is a waste.

The media and politicians paint a false dichotomy in our voting options. They say the only options are Trump or Clinton and that not voting for one is essentially a vote for the other. They don't even mention a 3rd party or 3rd party candidates. If someone brings it up, they use circular reasoning to suggest a 3rd party can never win. I refuse to be bullied into thinking you don't have a choice.

What if instead, people voted for Gary Johnson? He could steal significant numbers from both democrats and republicans. 60% of Republicans didn't want Trump and Clinton's victory over Sanders was pretty close. If John could siphon off even half of those who don't like Trump or Clinton, he would be in a good spot. The libertarian platform which uses war sparingly and desire to decriminalize drugs could stand to draw a lot of hippies. Conservatives can already align with libertarians in terms of smaller government. If the media actually gave him any attention, and he made a good showing in a debate, I think he could take the election.

If all of Hawaii republicans voted for Gary Johnson that would send a huge message. We already know that Tump won't get Hawaii so why not send a message by voting Libertarian?

A vote for anyone that isn't Trump is a vote for Hillary.  *corrected false claims

Anything is possible. Gary Johnson could possibly get 67% of the electoral college. But it is not probable. Too many entrenched democrats and republicans for that to happen. My prediction is Gary Johnson is going to be an also ran in the history books. Take it from someone who has voted Libertarian for years only to watch my candidate get 10% or less of the popular vote. As much as I would like to see a Libertarian become president, it won't happen in my lifetime. I'll go out on a limb and make that prediction.

Traditionally, the Libertarian candidate pulls most of their votes from ex republicans since their ideologies are more similar. There are three factions in the democrat party as I see them. The typical Liberal is the more moderate of the three factions has become the minority in the party. The Libertarian Party might get a few votes from them but they are bullied so much by the other factions they wouldn't dare vote any other way. The Progressive faction is so radical that they would never break party ranks and vote other than a dem. They are now the majority in the party. And then there is the newest faction which took over second place from the Liberals which are the Socialists. And they are the Bernie fanatics. Again, they bully each other if they even consider a vote in another direction.

I'll even take anyone out to breakfast at their choice of restaurant if anyone really thinks it can really happen. Anyone willing to take on my challenge? Gary Johnson wins the presidency, I'll take you out for breakfast at a restaurant of your choice on this island. If Gary Johnson doesn't even come close (10% or less of the popular vote) you take me out to breakfast at Zippy's. So there is the possibility that no one gets taken out to breakfast if Gary Johnson gets 11% or more of the popular vote. You have to agree in this thread in order to qualify.

My stance on this has been clear from the beginning. I am going to vote for the republican candidate (In this case Trump) because I am tired of my candidate never even coming close to winning and I want to do everything I can in order to keep Hillary out of office. If you don't vote for Trump, it give Hillary a better chance of becoming president.

I've decided not to vote for Trump. He's a lying megalomaniac. Won't vote for Hillary either, she's just as dishonest and in wall Street 's pocket. So Johnson is likely for me.

If that's a quasi vote for Hillary, tough. That's on the GOP for screwing up, not me.

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I've decided not to vote for Trump. He's a lying megalomaniac. Won't vote for Hillary either, she's just as dishonest and in wall Street 's pocket. So Johnson is likely for me.

If that's a quasi vote for Hillary, tough. That's on the GOP for screwing up, not me.

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So basically you are voting for Hillary.  A vote for Johnson is a vote for Hillary.

So basically you are voting for Hillary.  A vote for Johnson is a vote for Hillary.

Won't matter.  We get 4 electoral votes, which this state, with the exceptions of 1972 and 1984, gives to the Democrat candidates.  (2 elections out of 14 went to Republicans)

Even if someone besides Hillary gets our 4 votes, those are not going to be the tie-breakers.

Anything is possible, but some things are 99% certain.

All of that assumes the voter is in Hawaii. If you are voting in another state, then you need to look at whether the vote  will be close.  If it is, your decision could help Hillary become President.

I understand this is a sh*tty choice this year for all of us.

I am not going to tell anyone what to do.

It's hard enough telling myself what to do.

The "good news" is maybe the fix is in already, so Hillary will be elected whatever the F we do. So maybe no need to suffer too much anguish about this.

And let's definitely not let this F-ed up situation cause strife among ourselves.

I don't like Johnson. If it had been McAfee maybe I would feel the Libertarians have a chance (fix being in, notwithstanding). McAfee is well known and charismatic. Johnson, whatever. Anyway no point analyzing that now, they picked Johnson. I was surprised that Johnson supports TPP. Clinton now says she does not but may just be now riding on the wave of discontent with the TPP that was carried by Trump and Sanders.

During an interview on June 6, 2016, with Politico's Glenn Thrush, Johnson said, "Would I have signed or implemented the Trans-Pacific Partnership? I've got to tell you, I think it's laden with crony capitalism. Free market really is the answer. It's the answer to unifying the whole planet, in my opinion, and if China wants to subsidize the goods that it sells to the United States, who benefits from that? Well, we do. And at the end of the day, who pays for any sort of tariffs? We do. So free trade, genuine free trade, that's another one of Trump's--you know, hey, he says 'I'm all for free trade' but then, in the next sentence, he says, 'I'm going to force Apple to make their iPads and their iPhones in the United States.' Hm, that sounds really free trade to me."

During an interview on July 3, 2016, Gary Johnson told CNN that "if he were president, he'd sign the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal into action based on his advisers' recommendations." Johnson said, "I'm being told that the Trans-Pacific Partnership would, in fact, advance free trade, and so I would support that document."

https://ballotpedia.org/2016_presidential_candidates_on_the_Trans-Pacific_Partnership_trade_deal#tab=Third_party_candidates

I'm more interested in what the "Feel the Berns" devotees will do.  I know a few of them (not close friends).  One is actually a Bernie delegate and last I heard will be attending the DNC.  While I best a lot will stay along party lines, I have to think that there are many that will look to "vote their conscience". 

I'm more interested in what the "Feel the Berns" devotees will do.  I know a few of them (not close friends).  One is actually a Bernie delegate and last I heard will be attending the DNC.  While I best a lot will stay along party lines, I have to think that there are many that will look to "vote their conscience".

I think they hate Trump more than they hate Clinton, those Bernie supporters.

The fact that some of them are bothering to go to the DNC says a lot. Spending time and money going there.

If you vote for any one except trump you are voting for Hillary, a 3rd party has ZERO chance of winning. You as an individual have the right to vote for whoever you want but remember you only have 2 choices for the white house, Trump or Hillary, You must decide on the lesser of 2 evils (once you take the media spin of trump a lot of his policy's make sense)

Do you want Obamas 3rd term or something else.....

Hilary : Im in favor of an Australian style gun buy back,
Trump : I want a national concealed carry permit

I think they hate Trump more than they hate Clinton, those Bernie supporters.

The fact that some of them are bothering to go to the DNC says a lot. Spending time and money going there.

Not sure if they are still going.  That was probably about a month ago, before Sanders did his 180.

While I would bet the majority won't back Trump, I am just wondering if many of them will look for other opportunities.  The few "Feel the Berns" people that I know of, are younger (early 20s) and are quite passionate and very much against Hillary. 

I couldn't disagree more. 

It isn't about liking or disliking Trump.  Everyone that does not particularly like Trump, must ask themselves if they really think that he will be worse than Hillary?  If Trump does not get the vote, it IS like casting a vote for Hillary.  Love him, hate him, whatever, but Trump must beat Hillary and he is the only plausible candidate that has a reasonable expectation of being able to defeat her.  You can "what if" possible BS scenario's all day long and the bottom line will still be either President Trump, or President Clinton.  America is at stake here.

I couldn't disagree more. 

It isn't about liking or disliking Trump.  Everyone that does not particularly like Trump, must ask themselves if they really think that he will be worse than Hillary?  If Trump does not get the vote, it IS like casting a vote for Hillary.  Love him, hate him, whatever, but Trump must beat Hillary and he is the only plausible candidate that has a reasonable expectation of being able to defeat her.  You can "what if" possible BS scenario's all day long and the bottom line will still be either President Trump, or President Clinton.  America is at stake here.

I agree.   

Beyond that, I simply can't comprehend how Hillary gets so much support.  I HATE talking about politics, though when I see the "Occupy Democrat" types trashing Trump, they really are more anti-Trump than pro-Hillary.  When they are asked about why they are choosing Hillary, many don't or can't seem to put together rational thought as to why they support Hillary.

I'v'e fallen in lust !   

   Real simple kiddies.
If you are on this site,you should be here for your 2a rights.
If not, your a troll, libtard, anti-gun EmoDemo, combination of or whatever. 
   If you don't vote for Trump and Hilly wins, your kissing whatever gun rights away and more to come.