Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality (Read 8965 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality


Quote
John Hendricks recalls a split second between impulse and action before he took aim and shot
Everardo Custodio just before midnight on April 17 after Custodio opened fire on a group in Logan Square.

Hendricks was not charged for shooting the 23-year-old because he had a concealed carry gun license and
was determined to have acted in self-defense. But he said he was questioned for hours by detectives after
the shooting and, seven months later, hasn't gotten his Springfield Armory .45 back from authorities.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-concealed-carry-shooting-interview-met-20151120-story.html
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 09:23:13 PM »
Good story, stuff like this isn't normally published in the media.  Now it just has to be published in national media next.

Pretty sad when Illinois has concealed carry and we don't.

Heavies

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 09:37:20 PM »
Blacks and Hispanics are slowly waking up to the fact that the "gun control" was really people control, and they are now realizing that gun control is an infringement of their civil rights.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/14/reminder-guns-helped-secure-the-freedom#comment

RSN172

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 09:57:37 PM »
They have no right to keep,his weapon when they already determined he acted in self defense. Why did they have to question him for hours?  All of this BS is why I already decided that I will not shoot to save the life of a stranger.  If I was in Nevada or any state where I have a CCW permit and there was an active shooter in my location and I can get away safely with my loved ones, I would.  I would not engage unless me and those with me was threatened.  I don't need or want to be a hero or face legal problems and spend hours being questioned.

At Front Sight one of the range masters said what happens if you did shoot someone in self defense depends a lot on where it happens.  He said if you shot someone who broke into your home and was armed with a firearm in San Francisco, the DA would want to prosecute you.  If it happened in Lubbock Texas, the Sheriff would probably give you a round to replace the one you shot the guy with, pat you on the back and say good job.  I think in Hawaii the cops would arrest you and you would probably have to go to trial.  Hawaii is F'd up like that when it comes to guns.  Still that would not stop me from shooting someone who broke into my home.
Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 12:52:06 AM »
They have no right to keep,his weapon when they already determined he acted in self defense. Why did they have to question him for hours?  All of this BS is why I already decided that I will not shoot to save the life of a stranger.  If I was in Nevada or any state where I have a CCW permit and there was an active shooter in my location and I can get away safely with my loved ones, I would.  I would not engage unless me and those with me was threatened.  I don't need or want to be a hero or face legal problems and spend hours being questioned.

At Front Sight one of the range masters said what happens if you did shoot someone in self defense depends a lot on where it happens.  He said if you shot someone who broke into your home and was armed with a firearm in San Francisco, the DA would want to prosecute you.  If it happened in Lubbock Texas, the Sheriff would probably give you a round to replace the one you shot the guy with, pat you on the back and say good job.  I think in Hawaii the cops would arrest you and you would probably have to go to trial.  Hawaii is F'd up like that when it comes to guns.  Still that would not stop me from shooting someone who broke into my home.

That's great, because it's always better to think about ourselves first.  Let's look at some possible things that might happen as a result of your decision. 

Gunfire erupts, you head for the nearest exit, and never draw your gun. You decide you're safe, and the rest of the customers in the restaurant, or wherever the gunman is randomly killing people, are on their own.  Somehow the Cops know to interview you as a witness.  You volunteered the information to a Cop before leaving, you were stopped as you left, you were recognized in the surveillance video, you signed a credit card receipt -- somehow you are identified and questioned.  During the interview, you inform the detective you are legally armed.  The obvious question is asked:  were you armed when you were at the crime scene?  That nugget is now public information, and it's used by the anti's to show how the "good guy with a gun" theory doesn't work because CCW permit holders are not going to engage the bad guy unless they have no other options.  That adds fuel to the argument against CCW and weakens the 2A movement everywhere.

Or how about this:  you duck and cover, make it out, and a few days later tell your family and friends all about narrowly escaping with your life.  One of your group then informs you a neighbor's daughter, wife and six kids on the daughter's soccer team were eating ice cream when the shooting started.  They sheltered in place hoping the shooter could be stopped before they were discovered.  They weren't as lucky.as you, because each of them died that day either at the scene or soon after at the hospital.  If only someone had stopped the killer sooner, people you and your family were close to might have lived.

But, at least you saved yourself all that bureaucratic inconvenience and the hassle of starting a Go Fund Me page to cover your legal bills -- something many would have been glad to donate toward in light of the selfless act you would have performed.

Yeah, I see your point. 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 01:04:04 AM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Jl808

Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 07:56:40 AM »
I always recall what a very wise friend of mine said when we were having a discussion like this.

(Paraphrased) "In a life or death situation, you will never know what you will do or are capable of doing until you find yourself in that situation."

Let's not be too hasty to judge and hope we never have to find out for ourselves.
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

RSN172

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 08:39:35 AM »
Flapp,
I hope you realize your life will change for the worse, no matter how justified the shooting was.  I said I would not shoot to save the life of a stranger, if I saw people I knew there I would engage.  If I was walking somewhere and saw a guy raping a woman I would pull my weapon and stop it.  I have given careful thought to what I would do in various situations ahead of time, so that if SHTF, I don't have to wonder what I am going to do.  Think about this true situation.  A CCW holder came out of the store and saw a man trying to pull a woman out of her car who was screaming for help.  Draw your gun and confront the car jacker?  He decided to wait and the woman managed to speed away.  Then he finds out later the man was an undercover cop trying to apprehend a woman who had a arrest warrant out on her.  I hope you will think carefully ahead of time as to what will happen to your life after you decide to engage anyone.  No matter what, your life will turn for the worse, not better.  I rather be there to provide for my family instead of spending a few months in jail awaiting trial because of some over zealous DA.  That would be enough to make my family homeless and suffer for years.  I am not willing to do that for a stranger.  What you do is your choice.  I personally don't care what other people think about my decision to engage or not.  That is MY choice, I am the one who will live with it.
Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2016, 09:09:35 AM »
Flapp,
I hope you realize your life will change for the worse, no matter how justified the shooting was.  I said I would not shoot to save the life of a stranger, if I saw people I knew there I would engage.  If I was walking somewhere and saw a guy raping a woman I would pull my weapon and stop it.  I have given careful thought to what I would do in various situations ahead of time, so that if SHTF, I don't have to wonder what I am going to do.  Think about this true situation.  A CCW holder came out of the store and saw a man trying to pull a woman out of her car who was screaming for help.  Draw your gun and confront the car jacker?  He decided to wait and the woman managed to speed away.  Then he finds out later the man was an undercover cop trying to apprehend a woman who had a arrest warrant out on her.  I hope you will think carefully ahead of time as to what will happen to your life after you decide to engage anyone.  No matter what, your life will turn for the worse, not better.  I rather be there to provide for my family instead of spending a few months in jail awaiting trial because of some over zealous DA.  That would be enough to make my family homeless and suffer for years.  I am not willing to do that for a stranger.  What you do is your choice.  I personally don't care what other people think about my decision to engage or not.  That is MY choice, I am the one who will live with it.

Your story of the undercover Cop leaves out one important fact.  At no time did the man display a gun or threaten the woman or you with any other weapon.  You can't draw your gun to defend someone you see fighting unless you have a real belief some innocent's life is truly in danger, there is a rape about to be committed, severe injury will result, or in Hawaii someone is about to be sodomized.

So, in your story, you could just as easily jump on your cell, call 911, and yell to the man "I'm calling the Cops!"  Many times that's enough to cause a bad guy to flee.  If he's a Cop, he'll identify himself.  You, however, are not a Cop, and therefore can't just draw to stop any crime you think is taking place.  Deadly force is to be used judiciously, so to say you wouldn't draw is the correct decision without someone else escalating the altercation.

You seem to have a list of "tests" you intend to use to decide if you'll allow your life to "change for the worse" in order to possibly stop the killing of an unknown number.

We can play "what if" all day long, but it comes down to one thing:  you've already decided to be a sheep when the wolf attacks others you don't care about.  Unless cornered or protecting someone you value, you intend to flee.

No one is judging.  I'm simply saying there are consequences to both sides of your decision.  I would personally find it harder to live with myself if I allowed others to die knowing I had the means to stop the threat.  As for legal action, people deal with lawyers and court costs all the time without losing their freedom or becoming destitute.  Sitting in jail?  You assume there will be no bail?

In my opinion, a stranger is no less deserving of rescue than yourself.  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 :stopjack:

« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 09:50:52 AM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 09:44:31 AM »


No one is judging.  I'm simply saying there are consequences to both sides of your decision.  I would personally find it harder to live with myself if I allowed others to die knowing I had the means to stop the threat.  As for legal action, people deal with lawyers and court costs all the time without losing their freedom or becoming destitute.  Sitting in jail?  You assume there will be no bail?

In my opinion, a stranger is no less deserving of rescue than yourself.  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


We all have to,live with the decisions we make.  I am not going to judge what you or anyone else decides to do.  That is each individual's choice and there is less than 1 in ten trillion chance it will affect me in anyway.
Happily living in Puna

zippz

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 10:38:14 AM »
To each their own.  To some people saving their family is the most important thing to them, and that includes being alive for their family too.  For others it's to save anyone.  And for others it's to not get involved.  No right or wrong way.

Stresses the importance that everyone is responsible for their own safety.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2016, 10:45:54 AM »
They have no right to keep,his weapon when they already determined he acted in self defense. Why did they have to question him for hours?  All of this BS is why I already decided that I will not shoot to save the life of a stranger. 

I think a good police interview would take quite a while when it comes to such a serious case. Talk to someone about all the little nuances of a chaotic incident and you could easily spend an hour or two.

Depending on the specifics of the case they are allowed to keep the firearm for a period of time, even if no charges are posted. I know a guy whose kitchen knife was taken as evidence in a threatening case. Two witnesses came forward and cleared his name so he was released but the knife is still being held. As I understood it, they are keeping the knife under consideration that it is possible that new evidence could come out in the future that would in fact show him to have committed the alleged crime. The statute of limitations would be the cutoff i think. As far as for a shooting case, there is no statute of limitations for murder but I don't think that means they could keep it indefinitely. The case looks to be a little over a year ago though. The police or prosecutors have to account for the possibility that more evidence could come up in the future that could change what they know.

Personally, if I shot someone in self defense and the cops held my gun for a few years I would consider that gun to be a good investment and go buy another one. I don't think they should keep the gun forever but I don't think this is necessarily an unreasonable length of time yet.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2016, 10:54:42 AM »
I'm personally shocked reading that members of a 2A forum who cry about not having the right to concealed carry will ignore the fact this man used his legally carried pistol to stop a man firing into a crowd.  Instead, they focus on his handgun being held for a few months and a few hours of questioning by the police!

In a situation like the one described, I don't doubt the police wanted to ensure they were holding the good Samaritan and not someone else involved in a criminal act.  Once all interviews were complete, THEN they let him go.  That's my assumption, of course.  Why would they let him go after he shot the bad guy on his say-so that the other guy started it?  I think we jump to conclusions when we hear about being "questioned for hours".  That doesn't mean he was treated poorly or detained against his will.

As for his handgun, that's a side-effect of living in a Democrat paradise like Chicago.  They haven't allowed law abiding people to carry for very long, so I'm sure (1) they aren't used to the idea yet, and (2) most of their guns in evidence are never claimed because they were used in a crime.  The majority of guns are probably destroyed, as I again assume based on the attitudes toward public ownership of guns there.

To me, a few hours of questions and a few hundred bucks for a new gun is worth the lives I might have saved -- including my own.

There are wolves, sheep and sheep dogs.  We don't necessarily choose which one we are, but it's nice to know ahead of time who we can count on to face the wolves.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2016, 11:13:38 AM »
I think we jump to conclusions when we hear about being "questioned for hours".  That doesn't mean he was treated poorly or detained against his will.
He was most likely detained or arrested at the beginning until police could determine what happened.  Most likely he volunteered to be there for questioning.  If he didn't want to answer questions he either would be kept under arrest or be let go.


To me, a few hours of questions and a few hundred bucks for a new gun is worth the lives I might have saved -- including my own.

Consider concealed carry firearms to be disposable items.  If you ever have to really use it, then the cost of the gun doesn't really mean much.  I could see you not getting the gun back for years as once the gun is returned it can no longer be used as evidence later.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2016, 11:30:03 AM »
Consider concealed carry firearms to be disposable items.  If you ever have to really use it, then the cost of the gun doesn't really mean much.  I could see you not getting the gun back for years as once the gun is returned it can no longer be used as evidence later.

That's true, and there are also states which require a court order to have a gun returned.  Paying for a lawyer to get a court to issue that order might be a waste of money when you could use that cash to buy a new one instead. 

I'm sure most permit holders will have replaced their gun quite early in the process rather than be unarmed.  If you get the old gun back, consider it a bonus!. 
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2016, 02:02:27 PM »
There are also several incidents I have read about where the police interviewed several witnesses on site, saw that the one shooting the bad guy had a valid permit and let him go along with his firearm.  Location, location, location.  That does not only apply to real estate.
Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Concealed carry shootings now part of Chicago's gun reality
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2016, 04:27:33 PM »
Thank God, there are still people in this world who feel this way.....

Quote
“Protect your family, friends, neighbors…we live in a crazy world and the only way to make it better is to help each other and protect one another.”

Quote
Dylan DeBoard was in his Mount Vernon, Ohio, front yard putting his grill together when he saw something alarming.

A few houses down, a police officer was struggling with a suspect on the porch, and from what DeBoard could see:

    “The suspect had the upper hand.”

The suspect, who was under the influence of meth, managed to pin down Officer Michael Wheeler and then went for his gun.

He’d also ripped off Wheeler’s shoulder mic, which prevented him from calling for backup. With his back against the porch and the suspect pounding on him, Wheeler felt like he might not make it back home to his wife and children.

But suddenly, the suspect stopped the attack and raised his hands. Standing there to save the day was DeBoard, with his handgun drawn on the criminal.

http://ijr.com/2016/08/663034-gun-owner-who-saved-cops-life-gives-gripping-reason-why-hes-the-one-who-should-be-saying-thank-you/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=partners&utm_campaign=sarahpalin&utm_term=prm10
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw