So, a poor person paying little to no income tax, working two part-time jobs to survive, now has to quit a job to work for public assistance?

No, only those who get government assistance and not able to find employment, who are fully capable (i.e., mentally, physically, etc.) to find a job.


Does the single mother have to use gov't-provided daycare to be able to repay gov't assistance?

That would depend on her specifics circumstances.


Not everyone who is poor is idle.  Not everyone who is poor is employable.

I agree on both points.


Kuleana

Kuleana, can you give us one example of someone you know, their background and circumstances, if they have a family, what they do for work and what they previously did, and why they are not able to succeed?  I bet all of us here can come up with a plan for them to succeed to show that anyone can do it.

So, a poor person paying little to no income tax, working two part-time jobs to survive, now has to quit a job to work for public assistance?

No, only those who get government assistance and not able to find employment, who are fully capable (i.e., mentally, physically, etc.) to find a job.

So again that person would not be paying their fair share, they are working but not earning enough so they receive welfare but pay no taxs. or pay less taxs then they receive back in welfare.

To be a fair tax, either every one pays the same rate % wise of income earned or no one pays. welfare should be on a voluntary basis. Is i choose to give aid to my follow man then thats fine, No one should be forced to carry another. But then again i also believe those people on welfare (by choice) should be put on forced birth control untill they are capable of looking after themselves, Why would you be allowed to bring a child into this world when you cant even feed yourself.

I have always believed in the flat tax.
As do i but it has to be fair to every one, i seroulsy think a sales tax and import tariffs is the best way. it dont matter how much you earn but if you spend a penny in the US its tax and if you import items to try and avoid the tax it has a tariff, Tax is paid on every transaction, Wholesale and Retail.

No deductions, exemptions, credits or shelters.  Just straight % of income earned.  The more you make, the more you pay.  Not a higher %, but the same % -- just a higher total (math is like that!).
Only deduction should be for mortgage interest (owning land is the american dream and that should count for something) and charitable donations (upto a fixed percent say 1% of income) 

We draw a line, say , 25% above the poverty line.  Anyone making that or less pays zero tax.
NO - EVERYONE pays the same percentage.

For means-tested welfare assistance, it'll be based on program budget, not just numbers who qualify.  If the social services managers want to help more, they have to weed out  the fraud, waste and abuse.  Give only to those in need, not anyone who is smart enough to scam the system.
Benefits should be on a state level, no federal money should go to welfare. help that is given should be on the condition of betterment (helping them up instead of keeping them down)

A flat tax is FAIR.  It treats everyone earning more than they need the same relative to their income, and it treats everyone with barely enough or less the same as each other.  Anyone on the borderline will be scrutinized for under-reporting.
With a sales tax its less people to look at making it faster and more efficient. its very easy to track inventory in and out and look at profit, makes audits easy to run.

Right now most pay in the 15% - 25% range of effective tax rate.  Average is around 20%.  That's after all the deductions for mortgage, Schedule A, daycare, etc.

Are you saying you want to pay in the 10% - 15% range for a flat tax and STILL want the mortgage deduction?

Deductions are how the government encourages or discourages certain behaviors or supports certain industries.  When you get a mortgage, part of your "can we afford it" calculation is the tax deduction.  That analysis will only change in that you have to settle for less house, less favorable location, or negotiate a lower price.  The market absorbs your tax deduction.  They price their houses based on your ability to pay.  If the gov't is subsidizing the purchase with tax breaks, you know the asking price will be higher!

Right now most people pay no taxs.

and i agree deductions (and credits) do encourage certain behaviors (hence poor people poping out kids to get more food stamps and the tax credits)  But charitable giving should be encouraged as these organisations do relaly help those that need it and not just those that want it. I dont agree with the price being higher because of the mortgage deduction, Prices are to easily influenced by supply and demand for it to be a factor. Home ownership should be encouraged as it is the single greatest item of wealth that some one can have AND it is something that can build a future for that persons children on into the future and as i have said many times a parents only job is to create a better life for their child then they had.

Right now most people pay no taxs.

and i agree deductions (and credits) do encourage certain behaviors (hence poor people poping out kids to get more food stamps and the tax credits)  But charitable giving should be encouraged as these organisations do relaly help those that need it and not just those that want it. I dont agree with the price being higher because of the mortgage deduction, Prices are to easily influenced by supply and demand for it to be a factor. Home ownership should be encouraged as it is the single greatest item of wealth that some one can have AND it is something that can build a future for that persons children on into the future and as i have said many times a parents only job is to create a better life for their child then they had.

We draw a line, say , 25% above the poverty line.  Anyone making that or less pays zero tax.
NO - EVERYONE pays the same percentage.

Isn't that counter-productive?  These are the people likely to qualify for assistance.  Why take money from their paychecks only to turn around and give it back on an EBT card?

Inefficient.

and i agree deductions (and credits) do encourage certain behaviors (hence poor people poping out kids to get more food stamps and the tax credits)  But charitable giving should be encouraged as these organisations do relaly help those that need it and not just those that want it. I dont agree with the price being higher because of the mortgage deduction, Prices are to easily influenced by supply and demand for it to be a factor. Home ownership should be encouraged as it is the single greatest item of wealth that some one can have AND it is something that can build a future for that persons children on into the future and as i have said many times a parents only job is to create a better life for their child then they had.