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Kaepernick's protest..sort of.. (Read 48682 times)

ren

Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« on: September 02, 2016, 07:57:41 AM »
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/colin-kaepernick-protests-national-anthem-is-joined-by-teammate-021726337.html

I think that if he didn't take a paycheck it would've made a bigger statement. Only in this country where this sport is played can he make that much money.

Let's see how much he made
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/colin-kaepernick-7751/

There is much inequality there.
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Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2016, 08:05:38 AM »
My cooncern is that he did this while he was working and earning a paycheck. I wonder how many of us here can go out and do a political protest during working hours without getting punished or fired by our bosses?
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s197

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2016, 08:11:07 AM »
He has the right to not participate. How many jobs make you say the pledge of allegiance or stand for the National anthem?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2016, 08:19:59 AM »
Yep, most employers require that you participate in political activities and behavior on your own time.  The national anthem is a tradition for all pro sports in the US.  The networks, owners and team managers support it because the people who write their checks support it.

The players are expected to demonstrate good sportsmanship especially while cameras are recording.  They didn't schedule the event so each individual player could make a statement of their own choosing.  He should already understand sportsmanship, since he was fined $11,000 for calling another player a n*@@er on the field, and the team was given a 15 yard penalty on that play for unsportsmanlike conduct.  He's bringing all kinds of negative attention to the whole team and creating a distraction from the real reason they are there together.

Most people watch sports in person or at home because they don't want to watch something else -- like C-SPAN or MSNBC.  They want their politics separated from their recreational sports which is a diversion from the normal stress and frustration felt when watching or discussing politics.

I read he's not going to be retained beyond this season due to his injuries, surgeries, and weight loss -- nothing to do with the political statements.  But, with that baggage, he's going to have a tough time getting another team to take him.  Unless he's a superstar player, no one wants to deal with the negative publicity.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 08:24:35 AM »
There's nothing political about the national anthem.
It is appreciating the country we live in.
Another example of sitting and pouting because things don't go your way.
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Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 08:33:02 AM »
Quote from: ren on September 02, 2016, 08:24:35 AM
There's nothing political about the national anthem.
It is appreciating the country we live in.
Another example of sitting and pouting because things don't go your way.
We have a BINGO!

He's terrible.  He had some success early on, but now that other teams have figured him out, I don't see him having the same effectiveness he had before.  He cashed in a got a fat contract.  Good for him.  Now, he's just trying to stay relevant. 

Even my die hard 49er fan friends want him gone.  That's saying a lot. 

Yeah, he's free to express himself in whatever way he feels.  He just needs to be prepared for the full consequences of those actions.  Though from his reactions and actions since this started, it's obvious that he didn't think this through and is just another entitled young punk.
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Surf

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2016, 09:36:50 AM »
Hmm, lets see...

CONTRACT: 6 yr(s) / $114,000,000   
SIGNING BONUS$12,328,766   
AVERAGE SALARY$19,000,000   
GUARANTEED:$61,000,000   

Fairness of this country, the flag and what it stands for?  He gets paid to play a game and gets extremely rich off of it.  Lets see him pull that off living in another country.  He better pull his head out of his ass and unfuck himself.
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Kuleana

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 10:28:01 AM »
Quote from: s197 on September 02, 2016, 08:11:07 AM
He has the right to not participate. How many jobs make you say the pledge of allegiance or stand for the National anthem?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

It is extremely amazing for the few on this forum who champion the 2nd Amendment as it defends the 1st Amendment to chastise individuals who are exercising their 1st Amendment rights when it goes against their personal feelings on a particular issue.      :wtf:

It is one thing to disagree with Kaepernick's actions, which is another perfect example of expressing one's 1st Amendment rights to rebuttal, but to call for the deportation of Kaepernick as such is irresponsible as the 1st Amendment guarantees the freedom of expression no matter what that message is. 

For those guilty of this lack of understanding of 1st Amendment are showing that they are no different than the dictatorial anti-2nd Amendment supporters who use similar half-truth arguments to demonize and in some cases call for the outright elimination of the 2nd Amendment practicing community.

The Bill of Rights are absolute and not a Bill of Privilege Rights with stipulations for use.      :shaka:


Kuleana
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ren

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2016, 10:42:57 AM »
Quote from: Kuleana on September 02, 2016, 10:28:01 AM
It is extremely amazing for the few on this forum who champion the 2nd Amendment as it defends the 1st Amendment to chastise individuals who are exercising their 1st Amendment rights when it goes against their personal feelings on a particular issue.      :wtf:

It is one thing to disagree with Kaepernick's actions, which is another perfect example of expressing one's 1st Amendment rights to rebuttal, but to call for the deportation of Kaepernick as such is irresponsible as the 1st Amendment guarantees the freedom of expression no matter what that message is. 

For those guilty of this lack of understanding of 1st Amendment are showing that they are no different than the dictatorial anti-2nd Amendment supporters who use similar half-truth arguments to demonize and in some cases call for the outright elimination of the 2nd Amendment practicing community.

The Bill of Rights are absolute and not a Bill of Privilege Rights with stipulations for use.      :shaka:


Kuleana

I can chastise anyone I want to because its in the Bill of Rights.
In this case, I think that Kaepernick is a self-centered idiot who is unappreciative of this country and the freedoms it affords ALL OF US. If I had his opportunity would I turn around and say FUCK YOU this isn't fair?
I didn't do anything contrary to the Bill of Rights. I did not take away his right to express himself. I expressed my 1st amendment right to think and state he is an idiot.
I exercised my 1st amendment rights.

and you have too.
The difference between you and me is that I will stand and fight for this country. It's not perfect but its the best country to live in. Hawaii is an awesome state. Not perfect but awesome to live here.

Mic drop.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 10:47:58 AM by ren »
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Kuleana

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2016, 10:54:51 AM »
Quote from: ren on September 02, 2016, 10:42:57 AM
I can chastise anyone I want to because its in the Bill of Rights.
In this case, I think that Kaepernick is a self-centered idiot who is unappreciative of this country and the freedoms it affords ALL OF US.
I didn't do anything contrary to the Bill of Rights. I did not take away his right to express himself. I expressed my 1st amendment right to think and state he is an idiot.
I exercised my 1st amendment rights.

and you have too.

Mic drop.

For whatever its worth, I did not, nor was referring to you.  So relax, no need to panic.

I simply stated, as in my post, that position statements and counter statements leading to debate are healthy examples for 1st Amendment fitness.  It is only when statements that call for immediate actions that lead to violence against an individual or group(s) are when people are crossing the line and can be argued to be abusing their 1st Amendment Rights.


Kuleana
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2016, 11:10:17 AM »
Quote from: Kuleana on September 02, 2016, 10:28:01 AM
It is extremely amazing for the few on this forum who champion the 2nd Amendment as it defends the 1st Amendment to chastise individuals who are exercising their 1st Amendment rights when it goes against their personal feelings on a particular issue.      :wtf:

It is one thing to disagree with Kaepernick's actions, which is another perfect example of expressing one's 1st Amendment rights to rebuttal, but to call for the deportation of Kaepernick as such is irresponsible as the 1st Amendment guarantees the freedom of expression no matter what that message is. 

For those guilty of this lack of understanding of 1st Amendment are showing that they are no different than the dictatorial anti-2nd Amendment supporters who use similar half-truth arguments to demonize and in some cases call for the outright elimination of the 2nd Amendment practicing community.

The Bill of Rights are absolute and not a Bill of Privilege Rights with stipulations for use.      :shaka:


Kuleana

I don't know who is "calling for deportation."  He was born in Wisconsin and adopted by a white family.  You can't "deport" a citizen!

Maybe you refer to the calls for him to find another country that doesn't "oppress him" as he says the US does.  Or that he should find a country he CAN pledge allegiance to where he'd be happier and go live there.

Those statements are all covered under the same First Amendment.  To say "deportation" is disingenuous. 

I think you like  :popcorn: too much!
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Surf

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2016, 11:20:19 AM »
Quote from: Kuleana on September 02, 2016, 10:28:01 AM
It is extremely amazing for the few on this forum who champion the 2nd Amendment as it defends the 1st Amendment to chastise individuals who are exercising their 1st Amendment rights when it goes against their personal feelings on a particular issue.      :wtf:

It is one thing to disagree with Kaepernick's actions, which is another perfect example of expressing one's 1st Amendment rights to rebuttal, but to call for the deportation of Kaepernick as such is irresponsible as the 1st Amendment guarantees the freedom of expression no matter what that message is. 

For those guilty of this lack of understanding of 1st Amendment are showing that they are no different than the dictatorial anti-2nd Amendment supporters who use similar half-truth arguments to demonize and in some cases call for the outright elimination of the 2nd Amendment practicing community.

The Bill of Rights are absolute and not a Bill of Privilege Rights with stipulations for use.      :shaka:


Kuleana
What are you talking about?  No one here said he couldn't do what he is doing as a protest.  No one said anything about deporting the guy.  He probably needs a reality check as he wouldn't have nearly achieved the fame and fortune he did for playing football while doing it in another country.  We also have the ability to call it like it is.  114 million dollars and he thinks this country is unfair.  Ya right.  He couldn't have accomplished that anywhere else but here.
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PeaShooter

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2016, 12:58:35 PM »
I concur with Kuleana. The rest of you guys are free to criticize Kaepernick's unpopular opinion, just as he is free to sit during the national anthem. But, it is disturbing and partially contradictory that those who support the 2nd Amendment do not also support the 1st Amendment strongly enough to defend Kaepernick. Would you guys at least support Kaepernick if he were fired, fined, jailed, or deported as a result of his actions?

Personally, I approve of Kaepernick's actions as I dislike this country as well, but for different reasons. Both the 1st Amendment and 2nd Amendment are shams as both our populace and government intrude on them whenever and however they please.

I don't think there is racial inequality worthy of protest though, I agree with ren on that. But that's just my opinion and I respect Kaepernick's opinion even though his is different from mine.

I don't think you are obligated to honor and cherish your country, despite how much money you make. I disagree with you guys on that. That sort of thinking creates dictatorships.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 01:13:09 PM by PeaShooter »
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ren

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2016, 01:14:57 PM »
Quote from: PeaShooter on September 02, 2016, 12:58:35 PM
I concur with Kuleana. The rest of you guys are free to criticize Kaepernick's unpopular opinion, just as he is free to sit during the national anthem. But, it is disturbing and partially contradictory that those who support the 2nd Amendment do not also support the 1st Amendment strongly enough to defend Kaepernick. Would you guys at least support Kaepernick if he were fired, fined, jailed, or deported as a result of his actions?

Personally, I approve of Kaepernick's actions as I dislike this country as well, but for different reasons. Both the 1st Amendment and 2nd Amendment are shams as both our populace and government intrude on them whenever and however they please.

I don't think there is racial inequality worthy of protest though, I agree with ren on that. But that's just my opinion and I respect Kaepernick's opinion even though his is different from mine.

I respect Kaepernick's right to protest. He has every right to as civil servants and service members who have paid the ultimate sacrifice ensured that all citizens have rights.
With that in mind - he's a dumb ass. Albeit a very rich dumb ass. It's up the NFL to fine him if they feel they should. He can't go to jail or be deported for sitting down or taking a knee.
Why I think he's a dumb ass and not a symbol of oppression? He is bi racial but was given an opportunity to play and have a career in America's sport: football. If America was so oppressive why was he given this opportunity? Why do we have black people playing in America's sport? They should be the very ones championing America nationalism instead of rehashing racism ideas propagated by BLM and other aligned orgs. The NFL isn't the only organization and industry that has offered minorities lucrative opportunities. How many famous and rich black musicians are there?
And to further his hypocrisy: his father was black ...but left him and his mother before he was born...his mom then put him up for adoption. The Kaepernicks - who were 2 WHITE people adopted him.
What country allowed this stuff to happen? That's right - AMERICA!

Pea Shooter and Kuleana - there is a difference in defending one's rights and one's actions.
A right is also a responsibility. You have a 1st amendment right to go up to someone and say "FUCK YOU" . You can also go up to Chinese person and say "chink" or to a black person and say "n-word"
You can also legally and rightfully wear this:


Should you?

As a citizen of an American society we should be grateful for what we have instead of what "I" want. In today's culture it seems that we focus on the latter.
Kennedy had a great speech about this country.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 02:27:25 PM by ren »
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drck1000

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2016, 01:34:19 PM »
Where is anyone not supporting the 1st amendment?  Kap is free to express himself in whatever way he wishes.  No, I don't agree with it, but I never said that it wasn't his right to express his viewpoints.  I don't see anyone here is calling for Kap to be arrested, censored, etc.

People have rights.  Of course.  However, don't expect society to accept you if you go against the grain.  Sure, it's one's right to exercise their freedoms, but where does it say that society, or anyone for that matter, has to accept those actions. 

Like all those counter culture and non-conformist people that like to express themselves in socially provocative ways.  They are proud of their free thinking ways and their lifestyle that goes against society.  It's their right to express themselves in that manner.  Then the same people come out as saying society doesn't treat them fairly when society doesn't accept them for who they are, when they can't find a good paying job, etc.   

ETA: Then again, just another distraction that the MSM is pressing to keep your (or anyone's) mind off of other more important things going in this country.
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macsak

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2016, 02:34:18 PM »
Quote from: drck1000 on September 02, 2016, 01:34:19 PM
Where is anyone not supporting the 1st amendment?  Kap is free to express himself in whatever way he wishes.  No, I don't agree with it, but I never said that it wasn't his right to express his viewpoints.  I don't see anyone here is calling for Kap to be arrested, censored, etc.

People have rights.  Of course.  However, don't expect society to accept you if you go against the grain.  Sure, it's one's right to exercise their freedoms, but where does it say that society, or anyone for that matter, has to accept those actions. 

Like all those counter culture and non-conformist people that like to express themselves in socially provocative ways.  They are proud of their free thinking ways and their lifestyle that goes against society.  It's their right to express themselves in that manner.  Then the same people come out as saying society doesn't treat them fairly when society doesn't accept them for who they are, when they can't find a good paying job, etc.   

ETA: Then again, just another distraction that the MSM is pressing to keep your (or anyone's) mind off of other more important things going in this country.

i heard a sports anchor say something interesting:
would the NFL and the 49'ers be writing statements supporting his right to free speech and sitting for the Anthem if he would've said "i cannot stand for the national anthem because i am a christian and i don't like the direction america is going in regards to gay marriage" or "i cannot stand for the national anthem because i support the police and do not like the direction the country is taking by believing what BLM says"
NO, he would've gotten fined /suspended for not being PC
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drck1000

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2016, 02:42:59 PM »
Quote from: macsak on September 02, 2016, 02:34:18 PM
i heard a sports anchor say something interesting:
would the NFL and the 49'ers be writing statements supporting his right to free speech and sitting for the Anthem if he would've said "i cannot stand for the national anthem because i am a christian and i don't like the direction america is going in regards to gay marriage" or "i cannot stand for the national anthem because i support the police and do not like the direction the country is taking by believing what BLM says"
NO, he would've gotten fined /suspended for not being PC
:thumbsup:

Many ways to spin, highlight, negate, etc the "story".  How quickly speculation started on conversion to Islam, Muslim GF, etc.  Only serves to stir an emotional response and in this case serves to "charge" the situation. 

In this case, he's nothing more than a privileged punk kid. . . who deserves every right to express his views.  Still a punk kid. 
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PeaShooter

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2016, 03:14:11 PM »
Individuals can disagree with Kaepernick's actions, but when society as a whole wants to punish his actions, that is a First Amendment problem. Society as a whole elects the government. This in turn selects judges and creates the law. American society does not truly believe in either the First or Second Amendment, and that is exactly why both rights are fake. Judges and the Supreme Court make rulings according to how they believe things should be, they do not care what the Amendments actually say.

That is why I asked the question "would you guys support Kaepernick if he were fired, fined, jailed, or deported as a result of his actions?" Everyone said they would not support imprisonment or deportation. But is that sufficient to protect his rights? I say it is not. Unless we also protect him from being fined and fired, then we've failed to protect Kaepernick's First Amendment rights. And in turn, we've failed to protect our own First and Second Amendment rights.
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drck1000

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2016, 03:25:32 PM »
Quote from: PeaShooter on September 02, 2016, 03:14:11 PM
Individuals can disagree with Kaepernick's actions, but when society as a whole believes his actions should be punished, that is a First Amendment problem. Society as a whole elects the government. This in turn selects judges and creates the law. American society does not truly believe in either the First or Second Amendment, and that is exactly why both rights are fake. Judges and the Supreme Court make rulings according to how they believe things should be, they do not care what the Amendments actually say.

That is why I asked the question "would you guys support Kaepernick if he were fired, fined, jailed, or deported as a result of his actions?" Everyone said they would not support imprisonment or deportation. But is that sufficient to protect his rights? I say it is not. Unless we also protect him from being fined and fired, then we've failed to protect Kaepernick's First Amendment rights. And in turn, we've failed to protect our own First and Second Amendment rights.
Ok.  How would you go about "protecting Kap's First Amendment rights"?  Not being sarcastic here, just trying to understand where you're coming from and where you're going with that train of thought.

That said, what happened to him?  Nothing.  At least not yet.  You feel he's at risk of losing his job?  His contract is guaranteed.  Do I think he should be fired or jailed?  Not for what he did WRT to not standing during the National Anthem.  Don't believe he can be deported.  Do I think he's a little dipshit?  ABSOLUTELY!   
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ren

Re: Kaepernick's protest..sort of..
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2016, 03:39:49 PM »
Quote from: PeaShooter on September 02, 2016, 03:14:11 PM
Individuals can disagree with Kaepernick's actions, but when society as a whole wants to punish his actions, that is a First Amendment problem. Society as a whole elects the government. This in turn selects judges and creates the law. American society does not truly believe in either the First or Second Amendment, and that is exactly why both rights are fake. Judges and the Supreme Court make rulings according to how they believe things should be, they do not care what the Amendments actually say.

That is why I asked the question "would you guys support Kaepernick if he were fired, fined, jailed, or deported as a result of his actions?" Everyone said they would not support imprisonment or deportation. But is that sufficient to protect his rights? I say it is not. Unless we also protect him from being fined and fired, then we've failed to protect Kaepernick's First Amendment rights. And in turn, we've failed to protect our own First and Second Amendment rights.

His employment is at will.
His rights are protected by the govt. Govt. can't do anything to suppress his 1st amendment rights. His job isn't.
If you went up to your boss and called him/her an asshole or a bi*tch , can they fire you? 1st amendment doesn't protect you there. If you think so, go right now up to your boss and say that.

His rights were protected. He wasn't arrested. He played and continues to play and get paid $$$. The NFL isn't the govt. They also have rules. uniforms. etc. Can they wear any kind of clothes when they play in a game? Can they wear a Black Panther shirt when playing a game? How about a helmet with swastika? Those are 1st amendment issues there.
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Deeds Not Words
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