I've been playing with .3115" 167 gr bullets from Missouri Bullet Company. I ran test rounds from 15 to 40 gr of R15. Only the 15 and 20 grain bullets hit the target, maybe the 25 gr but not accurate. They're definitely subsonic at this speed. This was similar results to the cast bullets I got from Eggleston Munitions. My next trip will be 15 to 20 gr with 25 rounds total.

Isn't rl15 a bit slow for reduced loads?  I think a faster powder would give you better results for low power reduced load ammo.

Isn't rl15 a bit slow for reduced loads?  I think a faster powder would give you better results for low power reduced load ammo.

Ya, think powder is too slow, looked at a powder burn chart; never used RL15.  Do use 4064,
varget and blc2 which has a similar burn rate.   Personally I wouldn't use 15 grains of RL15,
would be  concerned with getting a pressure spike condition. 

I tried Varget with the same results. Maybe try blc2 or is that gonna be the same as Varget?

I already have ARcomp and Win 748. Any of those might work?

I tried Varget with the same results. Maybe try blc2 or is that gonna be the same as Varget?

I already have ARcomp and Win 748. Any of those might work?

I wouldn't use any of the rifle powders mentioned above for 15-20 grain reduced loads with
any bullet.   For rifle powders I'll use the lyman cast bullet handbook and the lyman AR
handbook.   Hope this link works.   Interesting read, using pistol/shotgun powders for
reduced loads in military rifle cases. 
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

Interesting but am I reading this correctly? Does the Lyman cast bullet handbook have load data for pistol powders in a 54r?

"For gas-check bullets loaded without the gas- checks, for cases like the .303 British, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R Russian and 30-06, I use 6-7 grains of almost any fast burning powder. These include, but are not limited to Bullseye, WW231, SR-7625, Green Dot, Red Dot or 700-X. I have also had fine results with 8 to 9 grains of medium rate burning pistol or shotgun powders, such as Unique, PB, Herco, or SR-4756 in any case of .303 British or larger."

Interesting but am I reading this correctly? Does the Lyman cast bullet handbook have load data for pistol powders in a 54r?

"For gas-check bullets loaded without the gas- checks, for cases like the .303 British, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R Russian and 30-06, I use 6-7 grains of almost any fast burning powder. These include, but are not limited to Bullseye, WW231, SR-7625, Green Dot, Red Dot or 700-X. I have also had fine results with 8 to 9 grains of medium rate burning pistol or shotgun powders, such as Unique, PB, Herco, or SR-4756 in any case of .303 British or larger."

Lyman cast bullet handbook does have pistol/shotgun powder load data in the 3rd ed
but not much in the 4th ed. for .303 and 7.62x54 russian.   So would recommend keeping
an eye out for the 3rd ed at gun shows.   

Not sure if I'm willing to pay $37 for a simple 54r load table. https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000WWCL8A/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
Perhaps I'll look to see if the gun stores have one I can take a snap shot of.

I already have the 15 to 20 loaded up so I'll see what results this provides. Also, the rounds are landing a foot below aim, not above so perhaps I'm having a different issue.

Interesting but am I reading this correctly? Does the Lyman cast bullet handbook have load data for pistol powders in a 54r?

"For gas-check bullets loaded without the gas- checks, for cases like the .303 British, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R Russian and 30-06, I use 6-7 grains of almost any fast burning powder. These include, but are not limited to Bullseye, WW231, SR-7625, Green Dot, Red Dot or 700-X. I have also had fine results with 8 to 9 grains of medium rate burning pistol or shotgun powders, such as Unique, PB, Herco, or SR-4756 in any case of .303 British or larger."

First I want to say that using RL-15 in a reduced load (less than published data) risks having pressure spikes. Not saying it will happen, just saying it could. Slower burning powders are not recomnended for reduced loads. Small amounts of fast burning rifle powders and faster burning pistol powders are normally used for reduced loads.

I assume that you are trying to find a good reduced load for your Mosin Nagant? Reason I'm asking is you don't want this for an SKS or other semi auto. And I am assuming you want this for target shooting and plinking not hunting. If my assumptions are wrong, please let me know.

If you are reloading for a Mosin Nagant I suggest you slug your barrel before you continue. Reason is I have seen Mosin barrels up to .315 and your .311 boolit won't stabilize in your barrel if it is anything larger than around a .313 bore. The barrel of my Mosin slugs out at .314 and I use a 200 grain lead boolit sized to .313 with a gas check. I probably don't need the gas check after I found the best load for this rifle/boolit combination but I don't want to change anything now that I found the right load.

To answer your question the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook does list some pistol powders and fast burning rifle powders for reduced loads. The pistol powders it lists are 2400, SR-4759, IMR-4227 and 5744. It also lists fast burning rille powders such as IMR-4198, N-133 and RX-7. I prefer powders that fill up the cases as much as possible rather than using a few grains of really fast burning pistol powders such as the ones you referenced. The use of these fast burning pistol powders is quite popular and economical. But there is very little published data for using these. In order to find the correct recipes I would recommend reading the cast boolit forum on gun loads dot com. If you are willing to trust the data you find on there you shouldn't have a problem. I for one don't like to trust a lot of what I read in these forums unless I can find some published data to substantiate what I read on the net.

Last thing I will say is that on Hodgdon's website there are 2 white papers that explain how to use 4895 only to load reduced loads. You start out finding out the max load and then reduce the load to 60% and start and work up from there. Also, there is a white paper regarding the use of Trail Boss in rifle cartridges. You mark the case where the bottom of your bullet sits and fill the case with Trail Boss up to that line. Weigh it and that is your max load. You can then reduce that load to 70% and start and work up from there. I have just started playing with Trail Boss in rifle cartridges. Fun stuff to play with so far.

You are correct, sir. Maybe someday I'll start casting my own bullets.

I used the manufacturer's load data but that didn't work until I reduced the load to 20 gn. The 91/30 worked pretty well with .312" Hornady 150 gn SP with 35 gn Varget powder at 50 yards using my red dot scope. I haven't been able to find cast bullets over .312" but I did order some .312" from Beartooth Bullets. I'm curious to see if these shoot like a cast or a jacketed bullet with the left over Varget I have.

I have the Lyman cast bullet handbook.
I can look up some data.

You are correct, sir. Maybe someday I'll start casting my own bullets.

I used the manufacturer's load data but that didn't work until I reduced the load to 20 gn. The 91/30 worked pretty well with .312" Hornady 150 gn SP with 35 gn Varget powder at 50 yards using my red dot scope. I haven't been able to find cast bullets over .312" but I did order some .312" from Beartooth Bullets. I'm curious to see if these shoot like a cast or a jacketed bullet with the left over Varget I have.

Generally speaking I found that cast boolits don't work very well, if at all, when pushing them at jacketed velocities (ie 2500-3000 fps). Even when pushing them at mid speeds (2000-2500 fps) sometimes does not work. As an example, the 200 gr boolit I use in my Mosin works best at the published 1,626 fps. I tried for almost a year to get this boolit to stabilize and group. I was trying to keep it in the 1,800 to 2,100 fps range. And it was not until I brought the velocity way down that it finally works. So be aware that Varget may still be too slow burning to get good, consistent reduced velocities. And it may be too slow to use in a reduced load scenario. While it may be that you won't get pressure spikes with Varget, there is the possibility that you could. I would suggest you not consider using it in a reduced load scenario. I would highly suggest you stick with published data from reliable sources. Here is a forum post that may help:

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=37158&s=f252a6a465b7e5ac3ace36b36ad359d1

Here is a forum I highly recommend for obtaining the information you are looking for:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

You will find many hours of good reading regarding cast boolits and reduced loads here.

 I have a303 Brit page from Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.
Can email it if you like

...and also the 762R page from the cast bullet handbook...

To answer your question the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook does list some pistol powders and fast burning rifle powders for reduced loads. The pistol powders it lists are 2400, SR-4759, IMR-4227 and 5744. It also lists fast burning rille powders such as IMR-4198, N-133 and RX-7. I prefer powders that fill up the cases as much as possible rather than using a few grains of really fast burning pistol powders such as the ones you referenced. The use of these fast burning pistol powders is quite popular and economical. But there is very little published data for using these.

So I got the 7.62 Russian and 303 British pages from Dave. It's an older edition. The 303 lists Unique and 2400 and the 7.62 lists Red Dot, 700x, Green Dot, PB, Unique, and SR-7625. Except for 2400 powder, it says the minimum charge is around 10 and max around 13. I've never gone lighter than 15 before. I have 700x. Should I try 10.0 to 13.0 grains in the test load or can I go higher and watch for pressure signs?

So I got the 7.62 Russian and 303 British pages from Dave. It's an older edition. The 303 lists Unique and 2400 and the 7.62 lists Red Dot, 700x, Green Dot, PB, Unique, and SR-7625. Except for 2400 powder, it says the minimum charge is around 10 and max around 13. I've never gone lighter than 15 before. I have 700x. Should I try 10.0 to 13.0 grains in the test load or can I go higher and watch for pressure signs?

While I have never used 700-X for reduced loads it falls right in the proper burn rate for using it as a reduced load. I would start at the published minimum 10gr and work up from there. I would not go over the published 13. The idea is to find the sweet spot velocity which is probably around the 1600 - 1800 fps range for your weight of boolit. And you will probably get that with 10-13 grains. Going to a higher load and the subsequent higher velocity could be counter intuitive to trying to load for reduced recoil and obtain acceptable velocity unless going faster does increase accuracy. The idea is to push the boolit fast enough to stabilize and provide acceptable accuracy but not go so fast that you start losing accuracy. Your desire to go up to 15 grains will probably push the boolit too fast and accuracy will suffer. And of course you will risk an over pressure situation.

If accuracy steadily increases up to the maximum13 grains without signs of falling off, you do have other choices. You could try increasing your load in small increments until accuracy starts to fall off. I don't recommend that as you are going over the recommended published load. It might be okay but do you really want to risk things when you have other choices? Especially since most visual signs of over pressure, or lack of signs can be quite misleading. After you hit the maximum 13 grains you could step up to using H4895 in a reduced load starting at 60% of maximum as written in the white paper I referenced. That should start you at around 1800 fps and you can go up to a maximum load from there. Safely as stated in the white paper.

I have a tendancy to err on the side of caution. I do not go over published maximums as there are almost always other choices in powders that can push bullets a little faster and stay within maximum pressures if I find I need to do this. This is JMHO. YMMV.

I have a tendancy to err on the side of caution. I do not go over published maximums as there are almost always other choices in powders that can push bullets a little faster and stay within maximum pressures if I find I need to do this. This is JMHO. YMMV.

Makes sense. Of course the problem with the published data is that I'm not using the exact rifle and bullet they used but it's close. I'm curious to see if it does go supersonic at a quarter of a regular powder load.With R15, I wasn't supersonic until over 25 gn.

Makes sense. Of course the problem with the published data is that I'm not using the exact rifle and bullet they used but it's close. I'm curious to see if it does go supersonic at a quarter of a regular powder load.With R15, I wasn't supersonic until over 25 gn.

What type of chronograph are you using to determine if your load is going supersonic? You will be getting well over that with your minimum 10 grain charge of 700-X. What velocity were you obtaining with your 25 grains of R-15?

No chronograph. Just listening to the crack of supersonic or pop of subsonic. Someday I'll get one but not cheap.

No chronograph. Just listening to the crack of supersonic or pop of subsonic. Someday I'll get one but not cheap.

I hate to say this to you but all of your loads were supersonic. At 10 grains of 700-X you will probably be around 1,400 fps plus or so which is way over supersonic. Your 25 grains of R-15 was probably around 1,800 fps plus.Since supersonic is right around 1,100 fps you would honestly have to load well below 10 grains of anything to be below that. Just like with trying to use visual signs for over pressure, which can be very unreliable, the sound of the supersonic crack is not a reliable cue if you don't detect it.