Got a S&W AR with Mil spec barrel (1/9).  And a red dot.

Been using wolf ammo 55gr.

Grouping is either size of a dime or grapefruit.  Not consistent. 

So what's a realistic grouping for this type of rife?  I went on different forums and not sure how legit the answers are.  Some say all grouping should be about a dollar coin, others say open hand is acceptable due to not using match ammo, etc...

Figure I'd ask here because we are a closer community and I would get honest answers.

At 50 yds. 1 to 2 inch would be typical with a stock gun and cheap ammo.
Any more than that would be worrisome.
Check your shooting technique too.
The Bbl  shouldn't be touching the sandbag.

If im hitting anything within 8 inchs im happy lol

Shoot. That's a pretty good grouping. I've been practicing all my life but the wife says I'm still missing the bowl at times.

If im hitting anything within 8 inchs im happy lol

...
8 inch too boo-koo!


(Beaucoup)

Soul brutha

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Modern quality AR's are easily shooting 2 MOA with quality ammo.  Crappy ammo and you are still in the 3-4 MOA range.  Precision AR set ups are MOA or less rifles now. 

Is it an all factory S&W?  Which model?  What is the red dot and how is it mounted?  As oldfart has mentioned be sure that you are not resting the barrel on anything.

Inconsistent groups are usually, but not limited to, shooter, ammo, optic, barrel contact, loose barrel, incorrect chamber cut.

Modern quality AR's are easily shooting 2 MOA with quality ammo.  Crappy ammo and you are still in the 3-4 MOA range.  Precision AR set ups are MOA or less rifles now. 

Is it an all factory S&W?  Which model?  What is the red dot and how is it mounted?  As oldfart has mentioned be sure that you are not resting the barrel on anything.

Inconsistent groups are usually, but not limited to, shooter, ammo, optic, barrel contact, loose barrel, incorrect chamber cut.

S&W Sport II with a Sig Romeo 5 red dot cowitnessed (no loktite), sight as forward as possible.  Handguard was on the sandbag. 

My bet is it's the optic and not the rifle.

Maybe Test it with a reliable scope ?

I'd be happy to help when I hit the range this weekend. Likely Saturday.

I'd be happy to help when I hit the range this weekend. Likely Saturday.

I'll keep you posted.  Got a company xmas party till 1ish.  Thanks for the offer.  The RO's were helping, but was limited on time due to the hang glider.

I'll keep you posted.  Got a company xmas party till 1ish.  Thanks for the offer.  The RO's were helping, but was limited on time due to the hang glider.

Hang Glider?  Shooting from a hang glider. Never heard of that before.

You've gotten some great feedback so far.  I'll add some thoughts (sorry if duplicate as I read through pretty quickly).

For the red dot, try turning the brightness down as far as you can.  That will help limit the "bloom" on the dot and give you a finer aiming point.  You can also try putting the top of the dot on your POI.  That can help minimize your vertical variance.  Most of my red dots are 2 MOA, but I've shot with dots in the 4 to even 7ish MOA and that's a large dot at even 50 yards. 

Is your hand guard free float?  Most of my have freefloated hand guards/rails, so I don't have to pay attention that much on the pressure that I exert on the gun.  I have a couple that have standard hand guards and when I zero the gun, I will pay more attention on how I am supporting the gun.

I haven't shot Wolf ammo in a long time, but I don't recall it being particularly quality ammo.  No need to buy match ammo, but maybe you can try with some M193. 

As mentioned, a magnified optic can help eliminate some variables/doubt in that regard. 

I've also come across improperly mounted optic leading to larger grouping than I expected.  You can try remounting and making sure everything is secure. 

For your setup and a good shooter, I'd expect 1 to 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards.  As said previously, A S&W AR, 55gr FMJ ammo, and red dot sights are suited for speed, price, and adequate precision.  Use 5 round shot groups to get a better idea of your precision.  3 round groups allow for too much variability.

I don't know what your shooting experience is, but I'd guess it's shooter error.  Rifle shooting involves a lot more than just putting the dot on the target and pressing the trigger.  There's the different shooting fundamentals, flinch, follow through, parallax, consistency, barrel break in, etc.  To become a proficient shooter requires classes, coaching, and thousands of rounds of practice to get the maximum accuracy out of a rifle.

It could also be the wind.  A strong crosswind can shift your impacts by up to 2 inches at 50 yards and create a horizontal oval.

Eyesight could be a factor.  I have astigmatism which makes my red dot look more like a blob.

Things I'm going to try my next visit:

1) Finger on trigger like on  a handgun (tip portion, middle).  Currently was middle section of finger.
2) Lower brightness on red dot, it was blotchy
3) Pay attention to wind (dirt movement)
4) Go earlier so I have more time.  (only had about 30 mins last time)

1st round of shots were about 4 inches from POI to the right 2-3 o'clock and about a 6 MOA group.
2nd round was 4 inches below POI 5-6 o'clock 6 MOA group
3rd round was 1 inch from POI 7 o'clock all shots touching each other

I learned over the years that naturally resting your trigger finger on the trigger works best for me.
The Army taught me to use the tip. Thats not always true for everyone. Wherever your finger rests to produce a consistent, linear press. When I take up the 1st stage of a trigger I ask myself if it was straight back, if not I reset and go through that process again. I check to see if my finger is resting on that sweet spot that produces that consistent straight press. Makes a great difference in pistol.
I dont subscribe to the thought of a surprising trigger shot. I tell myself that Im in control and Im steady at that point in time.  Life is already full of surprises. I want to be in control of the shot.
Anyways thats my half cent. Not a talented shooter like others here but Im a slow deliberate learner. Went public skool das Y.

Good point Ren.  Something I picked up is to try different methods and see what works best.  Try different trigger finger placements, grip, cheek welds, pressure, sight picture, body position, etc.  Trial and error.

For me, ammo seems to make a big difference.  Through my 1:7 18" barrel, I heard that heavier 223/556 loads (62gr & higher) would yield better results.  I get about 3-4 MOA @100yards with 55gr XM193 and most 223/556 off-the-shelf ammo.  I'm using a 12X max Leupold riflescope.

When I tried 62gr XM855, I had no idea where the bullet was going as sometimes it wouldn't hit paper when using 8" targets.  Again @100yards.  Also tried Black Hills 62gr match ammo and was as bit better but I feel that I got the best results with the 55gr ammo.  Didn't matter if it was 223 or 556.  Will try something heavier like 77gr in the future.

Not the best shooter either but kind of hard when trying to zero a scope with the green tips and you don't know where they're going.

I have shot my friend's rifle, same as yours. You should be getting better results than that. Barring ammo anomalies and shooter error I do have a suggestion. My friend had a fairly new red dot on his and the sight itself came loose from the base. The base was still tight to the picatinny rail. Only way I figured it out was I tried moving the dot sight to see if it was loose and it turns out it was. Even though the base was still tight to the rail the sight was loose on the base. It didn't move much. Just enough to throw off his previously tight groups. Problem for him is I think the sight is supposed to be permanently mounted to the base.  I think it is still under warranty. Kind of a freak thing I know but might be worthwhile checking.

I have shot my friend's rifle, same as yours. You should be getting better results than that. Barring ammo anomalies and shooter error I do have a suggestion. My friend had a fairly new red dot on his and the sight itself came loose from the base. The base was still tight to the picatinny rail. Only way I figured it out was I tried moving the dot sight to see if it was loose and it turns out it was. Even though the base was still tight to the rail the sight was loose on the base. It didn't move much. Just enough to throw off his previously tight groups. Problem for him is I think the sight is supposed to be permanently mounted to the base.  I think it is still under warranty. Kind of a freak thing I know but might be worthwhile checking.

My 1st time shooting out doors (2 weeks ago) with the red dot, it did come loose from the picatinny rail.  Didn't have my star wrench, but lucky the RO's had one so I retightened.

So now I shake it left to right before I shoot just to see if I need to apply loktite.  So far it hasn't come loose again.