I'm not convinced that any hand held firearm is "devastating".  Not to get too gory, but in order to stop someone who is intent on doing violence, either you have to make some holes and wait for enough blood to leak out for their blood pressure to drop (which takes significant amounts of time), or you have to hit them in the Central Nervous System,  Shot placement is way more important than caliber.

You've obviously never actually been around the results of a 12 gauge shot.

Attached is the result of a 12 gauge 00 buck shot to the face from 15 feet away.

WARNING... PICTURE IS GORY... DO NOT OPEN IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH.

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Yup.  If you want to be sure it will stop, aim for the head.  I've lost a pig that I hit 3 times in the chest with a .308, and had one go 140 yards while snorting out lung tissue.   

Quote from: crazy cat on January 12, 2012, 10:44:23 PM

I'm not convinced that any hand held firearm is "devastating".  Not to get too gory, but in order to stop someone who is intent on doing violence, either you have to make some holes and wait for enough blood to leak out for their blood pressure to drop (which takes significant amounts of time), or you have to hit them in the Central Nervous System,  Shot placement is way more important than caliber.

You've obviously never actually been around the results of a 12 gauge shot.

Attached is the result of a 12 gauge 00 buck shot to the face from 15 feet away.

WARNING... PICTURE IS GORY... DO NOT OPEN IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH.

you coulda just shown a watermelon...

off topic - king, were you @ ogc today?

Head shots aside, I understand that the brain contains enough oxygen to support 10-15 seconds of purposeful action; an awfully long time if the bad guy's purposeful action is ending your life.  Unfortunately, unless we train for head shots, that's the best we can do.  But, a center-mass hit with a shotgun almost guarantees that the vital organs will be shredded, meaning that the 10-15 seconds is probably all the bad guy's going to get.  With a lesser firearm, you may or may not hit vital organs, even with a perfect shot; especially a small caliber like .22.  That means that 10-15 seconds may drag out into 10-15 minutes, 10-15 hours, who knows?  That's also aside from the fact that .22 does not have sufficient power to penetrate the chest and organs and damage the CNS.  A head shot, yes, but those are ill-advised in a home defense scenario.  I've actually gone and done some research on the topic this evening, since I was interested in the discussion.  A standard 2-3/4 shell with #1 buck may be even better than 00.  It's got 16 pellets that fall somewhere between a .32 caliber and a .380 auto, and penetration in ballistic gel is just over 12 inches.  That's pretty impressive; and once I get my shotty out here I think I'll keep it loaded with #1.  Seven rounds of #1, assuming all pellets strike the assailant, means that poor bastard is going to have 112 .30-caliber bullet holes in him.  If that doesn't cause a precipitous drop in blood pressure leading to unconsciousness and death, I don't know what will. 

Whatever you do, do not start browsing pics on rimfirecentral.com or parts at midwayusa or brownells. You have been warned. 

Lol ack!  Must resist! 

3 words:

CHICKS DIG 22s   

Holy smokes.... Rimfirecentral has some awesome looking pics of the 22s!  (Salivate)  I'm gonna have to plan this out a little better about deciding on a starting platform for the 22.

Both the SIG 522 and the Marlin 795 look  great but I think I will stick with a non-AR type 22 rifle.

From browsing the Internet forums, it seems that the stock Marlin 795 is more accurate than a stock Ruger 10/22.  Is it true that one has to upgrade the Ruger 10/22 to get it to shoot as accurately like the Marlin?

What I want to end up with is a regular looking ambidextrous rifle (not AR type) with a decent scope, a sling and possibly a bipod attachment that shoots groups decently.  I plan to make it a keeper, not one I will outgrow later.  I'd rather do minimal mods on it so I can learn to shoot it well without customizing it too much that it becomes a completely different gun.

I don't want to go overboard either and spend on a match grade Anschutz but what do you suggest is a good platform to choose? 

I don't know how the Marlin is out of the box, but if you follow this link, you'll find that Midway alone has 60-some barrels for 10/22, everything from stock replacement barrels for seventy bucks up to precision match barrels from Lilja for $450. 

From browsing the Internet forums, it seems that the stock Marlin 795 is more accurate than a stock Ruger 10/22.  Is it true that one has to upgrade the Ruger 10/22 to get it to shoot as accurately like the Marlin?

I own a Marlin model 60 which I bought in 1982. Basically, the daddy to the 795. The model 60 is tube fed and the 795 is clip fed. Same action, same rifling in the barrel. My 60 will outshoot a stock 10/22 and it cost me $48 back then. The 795 is roughly $125.00. I hang out on Rim Fire Central as well!!! 

The big difference is that there is a very limited amount of upgrade options for the Marlin especially compared to the 10/22. Also, Marlin quality control can be spotty at times. I have done the following to my Marlin:

1. Trigger job (did it myself)
2. New wider target trigger
3. New aluminum trigger guard
4. New laminate thumbhole stock which I finished myself
5. New bolt handle

I have done nothing else except add a cheap scope. I can shoot the bolts at the metal range at 100 yds. It loves CCI Blazer ammo. Next mod is going to be a decent scope.

I cannot make it any more accurate because there are no barrel/trigger aftermarket parts. Once in a while I shoot next to someone on the rifle range that can tack drive with their 10/22. They can be done for about $800-$900. So your choice is if you pick the 10/22 you will have options to make it shoot better than the Marlin. But if you don't intend to modify or anything aftermarket the Marlin cannot be beat!

Inspector, where did you get the stock from?   Been looking towards getting a wood one fir the 795, dont like the black gun look.  Also on the CCI my gun seems to like those as well, more then the winchester super x i was trying.

And to the OP, what you mean by non AR type .22?
And you cant go wrong with the marlin.  Pretty cheap and they always have the $25 mail in rebate.

On a side note, my friend wants to pick up a rugar 10/22.  Hopefully he does it soon then we could compare.

Oh, and I'd NEVER mount a light on a gun.  That means pointing a gun at something you haven't identified, which violates so many safety rules that it isn't funny.

I don't know any safety rule that says don't point a gun at something you have not identified.  In fact, if I haven't identified it -- I'm probably GOING to point a gun at it so that whatever it is doesn't have the advantage on me.

And to the OP, what you mean by non AR type .22?

Oh, I meant not an assault rifle design. Not sure if this is the right terminology.

Oh got it.  You mean non ar looking like the S&W-22 is

I don't know how the Marlin is out of the box, but if you follow this link, you'll find that Midway alone has 60-some barrels for 10/22, everything from stock replacement barrels for seventy bucks up to precision match barrels from Lilja for $450. 

I really tried not to respond to this whole "pimp your 10/22" vein.  To me, if I buy a gun, I buy it with the expectation that it will perform, not with the expectation that I'll have to double my investment with aftermarket parts before it will perform.

JI, the 10/22 is a fine rifle straight out of the box.  It's capable of minute-of-steel accuracy with almost any ammo you buy.  So don't worry. 

Now, if you're one of those people who think the customizing is part of the fun, then the 10/22 is a very... erm, I'll go with "robust"... platform for that as well.  Lots and lots of people out there making parts. 

Just realize that it isn't a requirement.  Now go buy the thing already! 

Inspector, where did you get the stock from?   Been looking towards getting a wood one fir the 795, dont like the black gun look.  Also on the CCI my gun seems to like those as well, more then the winchester super x i was trying.

On a side note, my friend wants to pick up a rugar 10/22.  Hopefully he does it soon then we could compare.

The only company I know that makes wood for the Marlins is Boyds at http://www.boydsgunstocks.com. They only make limited production runs for the marlins so when you see one you better grab it because it can be a year before they make them again. I just checked their site and the have the SS Evolution stocks for the Marlins. These stocks are spectacular and I am sure you have see them on 10/22's at the range. I know I have. At the time I bought my thumb hole stock they had never made the SS Evolution for the Marlin. So if you like that stock I would grab one ASAP. Here is the page with the Evolution stocks: http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=ss+evolution. If you want a thumb hole instead and are willing to wait then get on their e-mail list and they'll let you know when they make them again. BTW, mine is the nutmeg laminate and it looks AWESOME!!! Here is the company called DIP that makes some nice pieces for the Marlins as well: http://www.diproductsinc.com/products.aspx?CAT=3603. I would recommend if you get some wood for your Marlin that you also get the target trigger as well. It is worth the price.

Since this gun is a plinker (cuz I already have a good Anschutz .22 target rifle) I tried as much cheap .22 ammo as I could find. And the Blazers seem to be the hands down winner for most everyone who owns one of these little beauties. I tried the bulk Winchester, Remington and Federal. I tried the better quality Federal ammo, Lapua and some VERY high quality target rounds. And the cheap Blazers won hands down. I added a couple of pics for those who may be interested.

Let us know what happens when you guys compare guns. I think you'll be very surprised!

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Oh got it.  You mean non ar looking like the S&W-22 is

Yeah I figure I might go nuts with the AR mods, trying to make the ultimate AR 22. I'll start with the 22 and work up to a larger caliber later.

Quote from: Cougar8045 on January 13, 2012, 06:27:19 PM

I don't know how the Marlin is out of the box, but if you follow this link, you'll find that Midway alone has 60-some barrels for 10/22, everything from stock replacement barrels for seventy bucks up to precision match barrels from Lilja for $450. 

I really tried not to respond to this whole "pimp your 10/22" vein.  To me, if I buy a gun, I buy it with the expectation that it will perform, not with the expectation that I'll have to double my investment with aftermarket parts before it will perform.

JI, the 10/22 is a fine rifle straight out of the box.  It's capable of minute-of-steel accuracy with almost any ammo you buy.  So don't worry. 

Now, if you're one of those people who think the customizing is part of the fun, then the 10/22 is a very... erm, I'll go with "robust"... platform for that as well.  Lots and lots of people out there making parts. 

Just realize that it isn't a requirement.  Now go buy the thing already! 

LOL roger!  Time to start shopping.

Just wanted to say a big thanks to everyone for your input!  I've learned a lot and your advice helped me a lot.

I've decided to start with a stock Ruger 10/22 and will mod it as my skill with the rifle and understanding of the modifications improves.

Have a great weekend! 

I just wanted I say....going with the Ruger vs the Marlin reminds me of a lesson I learned when i used to buy better spec'd but not popular electronic equipment.... It worked great for a while but when I eventually needed accessories, replacement parts or new software for the device, I found it difficult to find parts or manufacturers later on.

By going mainstream... even though it may not be the best, it's good to have many options and parts available if I needed something for it later on.

Just my personal shopping preference but it seems that the Ruger fits this choice.

I remember someone saying ogc has them for a killer price.

Also the stainless steel version is only lined, not a complete barrel.  Ogc also has a huge selection of the rugars, from a stock one to one with a bull barrel, AR type one and a pink one too I think.

Just some pointers I got when I was looking into them.


Oh and inspector thanks for the links, ill check it out. Beautiful guns by the way.  I'll keep the trigger upgrade in mind when i change stocks. Also were you able to change the stock yourself, never tried something like that before