How long are you holding the cases to the flame? Do  you have Tempilac? I go 6 seconds at the end of the flame - on low

4 seconds.

4 seconds.

just the necks?  How many loadings on those cases?   Winchester brass is on the thinner side, they won't last too many firings. 

Just the necks. I made sure the annealing discoloration only went 1/3 down the case from the neck. I can find plenty of documentation on effect that annealing has on preventing neck splits but not sure what effect it has on preventing head separation.

Six. That's my suspicion that the Winchester cases were thin. I think it was Dear Season XP. I'll dremel it and see what it looks like on the inside.

The cracks happened where the body thickness narrows from the rim (where the stick is at).

Looks like normal used up brass, and a good amount of firings off of Winchester brass.  It is good accurate and cheap brass.  Lapua cases are expensive, but last much much longer.

Tried it again. This is fun doing invasive testing. The black line is where the separation occurred. The bottom case is Hornady with the split neck.

Tried it again. This is fun doing invasive testing. The black line is where the separation occurred. The bottom case is Hornady with the split neck.

I don't have this particular cartridge, but generally speaking I have found Winchester brass to be good but it does not take to reloading as many times as Lapua or Prvi Partisan. I have not seen case head separation but lots of split necks and splits in the upper body but below the neck. Not in the general case head area.

Hornady for me in 30'06 has been a mixed bag. I have had cases that last only 2 or 3 reloads with split necks and just recently I have seen a couple of case head separation issues. While other cases have held up to 7 or 8+ reloads and still are going strong. All of my Hornady cases were purchased new at the same time.

Remington cases have also been a mixed bag. I stopped buying them and Winchester cases. Federal cases also have been a mixed bag for me in .223. Always split necks and lots of trimming as they expand a lot. Lake City brass in .223 seems to hold there shape a little longer with less trimming than the Federal but I tend to toss more of them for other issues. I decided a long time ago that .223 and 9mm brass are so cheap and easy to come by free that I toss them at any sign of an issue. I used to try and save every case I could.

I almost exclusively buy only Lapua and Prvi Partisan brass for all my rifles (except for .223) as they seem to last more reloadings than other brands. For pistol cartridges I go almost exclusively with Starline brass with the exception of 9mm. I just hate to pay the prices for Lapua cases. So I always wait for a sale and then buy even when I don't need them right away so I always have some. I will say though that 7.62x54R is seasonal. You have to either buy new when available or be willing to buy once fired when you can find them and take whatever brand you can find.

This is just my findings YMMV

I don't have this particular cartridge, but generally speaking I have found Winchester brass to be good but it does not take to reloading as many times as Lapua or Prvi Partisan. I have not seen case head separation but lots of split necks and splits in the upper body but below the neck. Not in the general case head area.

Hornady for me in 30'06 has been a mixed bag. I have had cases that last only 2 or 3 reloads with split necks and just recently I have seen a couple of case head separation issues. While other cases have held up to 7 or 8+ reloads and still are going strong. All of my Hornady cases were purchased new at the same time.

Remington cases have also been a mixed bag. I stopped buying them and Winchester cases. Federal cases also have been a mixed bag for me in .223. Always split necks and lots of trimming as they expand a lot. Lake City brass in .223 seems to hold there shape a little longer with less trimming than the Federal but I tend to toss more of them for other issues. I decided a long time ago that .223 and 9mm brass are so cheap and easy to come by free that I toss them at any sign of an issue. I used to try and save every case I could.

I almost exclusively buy only Lapua and Prvi Partisan brass for all my rifles (except for .223) as they seem to last more reloadings than other brands. For pistol cartridges I go almost exclusively with Starline brass with the exception of 9mm. I just hate to pay the prices for Lapua cases. So I always wait for a sale and then buy even when I don't need them right away so I always have some. I will say though that 7.62x54R is seasonal. You have to either buy new when available or be willing to buy once fired when you can find them and take whatever brand you can find.

This is just my findings YMMV

+1 for Lapua cases.  I've had cases in 6mmBR that were reloaded over 20X with pretty warm loads.  The only reason they failed were because I got lazy a few times and did not anneal the necks and they started to split.  .308 brass currently has 12 reloadings on them and are as good as new.   (The load I shoot is hot.  155 grns @ ~2950FPS)  I anneal every firing and size minimally to fit the chamber.

They cost $1+ a piece, but in the long run, with proper maintenance, they pay for themselves.

I've had the same experience with PPU, Winchester, and Norma brass in my 7.62x54r. They've been reloaded 20+ times with periodic neck splits and never a case head separation. I've heard this is a testament to how versatile the MN is for reloading. In fact, the Norma is actually 53r and after so many reloads, it's finally stretched out to 54mm.

The .223 is so prevalent that it's easy to replace, not to mention 300BLK. The AK likes to chew on brass, so that's a different issue. There's something going on with the 6.5 Creedmoor that is stretching the cases. I've read that the max OAL is 2.94" (I'll test it soon) to the lands but my rifle is most accurate at 2.83". That's a huge jump. It's not a problem, just a characteristic of the platform.

I've had the same experience with PPU, Winchester, and Norma brass in my 7.62x54r. They've been reloaded 20+ times with periodic neck splits and never a case head separation. I've heard this is a testament to how versatile the MN is for reloading. In fact, the Norma is actually 53r and after so many reloads, it's finally stretched out to 54mm.

The .223 is so prevalent that it's easy to replace, not to mention 300BLK. The AK likes to chew on brass, so that's a different issue. There's something going on with the 6.5 Creedmoor that is stretching the cases. I've read that the max OAL is 2.94" (I'll test it soon) to the lands but my rifle is most accurate at 2.83". That's a huge jump. It's not a problem, just a characteristic of the platform.

How much are you bumping the shoulder?  Your 6.5 is a semi auto correct?  You should bump the shoulder only about .004" to maximize case life.  If you size the case too much it'll be a loose fit in the chamber and you overwork the brass and it'll fail sooner.  That brass should stay with that rifle for the life of that case.  If you will use the cases for multiple rifles, then you should size it to SAAMI spec, however those cases, again, will not be long lived.

Notes on your vid.  Factory chambering usually throat long for safety and liability reasons.  They do not want people loading to the lands, because if one is not very careful, they can cause overpressure situations if they jam the lands.  This can cause failures.  Also, they cannot account for every manufacturer of every piece of ammunition and possible new longer projectiles that may jam into the lands, also causing failures.  When he is talking about case variation from the factory, he is correct, in that cheaper brass will have a greater variation.  Once the brass is fireformed to YOUR guns chamber, all that is moot.  the brass is now fitted correctly to your own gun, and if you size it correctly, it should shoot fine.  If your own cases are stretching too much then if may indicate a problem with your rifle.  Might be unlocking too soon, with too much pressure still inside the chamber..  Might be a chamber cut wrong... who knows?  need some diagnostics to figure out.

Only reliable way to know is to measure the max to the throat in your gun.  If it is a factory barrel, it will be WAY longer than mag length. There is no way to know for sure what reamer was used, how many times it was used, how worn the reamer is....  variables are endless.  Never depend on what you see or read for this type of dimension.  You'll have to measure your own rifles chamber. 

A note on your current OAL.  You should find your powder charge first, then find the correct seating length (OAL)   Start at max length that will fit in your magazine, then slowly seat the bullet deeper into the case until you find the best group.   Seat depth finely controls barrel time.  The best charge will get the bullet out of the barrel at close to it's calmest point of oscillation.  Seat depth will fine tune that to the best point of oscillation.

In my own experience, jumping or jamming into the lands made very little difference in overall consistency.  Some loads shot great jam into the lands, then if seated deeper and deeper (not talking below minimum published OAL of course)  it eventually got to that same level of accurate consistency.  As a matter of safety, I'd rather have the bullet jumping a little.

I have a 168 Berger hybrid load, in .308, that jumps .040" to the lands, and IF the shooter is up to it, will put 10 rounds into one ragged hole at 100 yards.  I've shot a few cleans at 300 yards with this load, which is 15 rounds inside 3" @ 300 yards

Bolt action. When I started with the rifle last month, I was surprised how little sizing was occurring at the time but can't find the notes I made so will measure it again after my next trip.

My established load is 42gr Superformance with the Nosler bullet. I seated the bullet by 0.03" and found 2.83" most accurate. I'll play around with it more next trip.

140RDF/2.854"      2.10"
140RDF/2.828"      1.09"
140RDF/2.798"      1.40"
140RDF/2.777"      1.84"

I confirmed that the max length in the magazine is 3.00" and the max OAL to the lands is 2.935". The recommended OAL from Nosler is 2.805".

Bolt action. When I started with the rifle last month, I was surprised how little sizing was occurring at the time but can't find the notes I made so will measure it again after my next trip.

My established load is 42gr Superformance with the Nosler bullet. I seated the bullet by 0.03" and found 2.83" most accurate. I'll play around with it more next trip.

140RDF/2.854"      2.10"
140RDF/2.828"      1.09"
140RDF/2.798"      1.40"
140RDF/2.777"      1.84"

I confirmed that the max length in the magazine is 3.00" and the max OAL to the lands is 2.935". The recommended OAL from Nosler is 2.805".

For a bolt gun bump the shoulder of the case only ~.002".  The Redding body die I use allows me to bump my cases reliable .0015" for a real nice fit.  My target rifle has a tight match chamber though. 

Seating depth-  try doing finer adjustments.  .030" is too course of an adjustment.  Try your 2.830" and go out .002" .004" .006" and deeper .002" .004" .006"  see if any of those change anything.  shoot 3 shot groups, round robin at it's own target, don't adjust the scope.  You'll notice the groups change.

Measure the depth changes at the ogive of the bullets, not the tip.  the tip varies, you'll never get an accurate reading.  The OAL to the tip is only good for a general course measure.   

Thanks. I'll get the comparator when I can afford it. I'm still tapped out from Christmas.

something else is going on with either your shooting or the platforms
I suggest IDing them before shooting for groups

So I was cleaning the 6.5 rifle and thought to check the action screws. Sure enough, the rear screw was loose. Doh! The manual only says to tighten them until they are snug, so I tightened them to 40#. Ironically, the manual shows them tightening the screws with a Wheeler wrench.

Here's a gun toting preacher from Arkansas...

It was another beautiful day in paradise at the range. I planned to go to the range on Thursday when it fit my schedule, but there was a nasty (North Koreanish) storm cloud that hung out menacingly to the south of the island so decided against visiting the range then. The forecasters said today the winds would pick up this afternoon so got there at mid-morning. As it turned out, it was dead calm with no rain in sight. With all the rain we’ve been having, the range is starting to look like a family park.

6.5 Creedmoor: I was looking forward to trying the rifle again after discovering the action screws were loose last time. I happen to arrive at the range the same time as my friend, Shaun. He bought the same rifle a couple weeks after I did. (I finally received my rebate check from the manufacturer.) He was telling me about how his rails were loose at his last trip. After shooting 7 fouling rounds, I discovered that my rails were loose also. We didn’t have any Loctite and I told Shaun that I was gonna tighten the fuck out of it. (Very scientific.) I torqued it to 45#. Later I’ll take it apart because I bought better scope rings and plan to lap them with the Wheeler kit.

I made 5x7 rounds of Superformance 42.0gr with seating depth of 2.810” to 2.840” in 0.005” increments. Nosler recommends 2.805” OAL, and I previously found 2.830” more accurate. I don’t have a bullet comparator and this was the best I could do (or interested in doing). I have a bottle of IMR8208 XBR that is burning a hole in my reloading bench, so I need to start loading that. I have 353 of the 140gr RDF bullets remaining. After that, I ordered a 500 box of 140gr Hornady Match BTHP that has great promise. At 24 cents per bullet, these have been flying off the shelf.

What’s weird about the seating depth test is that the loads I shot on the right side were more accurate than the loads on the left. There was something neurological going on with my shooting. I know it’s cheating, but I excluded one flyer from the left side per load. It’s the best way I could try to make sense of what I had. In addition, most of the loads exhibited the annoying characteristic of having an inverse relationship between group size and velocity SD. The 2.815” grouped well but that may have been a fluke. I guess I’ll go with the original 2.830” based on the eyeball test and call it a day for now. I’ll try it again later with the I8208 XBR and then try the remainder of the Superformance with the new Hornady bullet.



I had 15 cases left so I made 41.6, 41.8, and 42.2 gr of Superformance. The 41.6gr grouped best, but I feel like it’s not conclusive. Most of the 42.0gr rounds I made were spent on trying to figure out the problem with my scope rails or I shot them at the metal target.

MN 91/30: I started out with shooting the Xtreme 123gr with 48.5gr Reloader 15. These packed a wallop at 2915fps and kept blowing the sunshade off my chrono. I think the display had some water in it from a couple weeks ago, and these rounds were the Coup de Gras for the display. They were able to hit paper and that’s about it.

I next shot 25 rounds of IMR4895 38.2gr with the Hornady 174gr RN that worked well for me before. I shot them in 5 round groups and averaged the results. These shot so well, I listed the results in MOA instead of inches at 50 yards. Despite the SD, the velocities were spot on with the Hornady load data.



Next were 10 test rounds of H4198 29gr with the Hornady 150SP that was suggested to me. I had to raise the scope by 4 minutes. As the story goes, H4198 and Unique are not positional dependent powders in the cases. In fact, I recently found an Iraqveteran8888 video where he suggested 13 to 15 gr of Red Dot with the jacketed bullets. The H4198 were surprisingly accurate. There’s no published data that I could find so no idea how fast these are supposed to go. Probably not a good velocity for hunting…



Next were 28.0 to 30.0 gr H4198 with the Hornady 150gr SP. The 28.0gr grouped well with excellent velocity SD. The 29.5 and 30.0 gr elevated off the target so these results are unreliable. I’ll try 27.6 to 28.4 gr next time but will need to obtain a new bottle.



1911-22: I replaced the firing pin spring and the recoil spring on the pistol. It shot a lot better than before and should’ve replaced the springs earlier.

It was a windy, misty day at the range. I eventually had to take in the chrono before firing the AK because the sensors were starting to fill with water. Between that and apparently getting shot with my .22 pistol (how in the world did I manage to do that?), I suspect it doesn’t have that much longer with us. Interestingly, the chrono results today were about 70fps faster than the published load data instead of the usual 100fps slower. Perhaps it was the overcast weather and positioning. No Creedmoor this time because I took apart the scope mount but didn’t like the new Nikon rings I bought so I’m waiting for the new ones to arrive. Update: I think the chrono was hit by fragments from the Extreme .312" bullets at the Mosin hot loads level. A piece also managed to hit the tripod.

AR-15: Retry of the Nosler RDF 70gr with the TAC. This time I went a little higher with 22.2 to 23.0 gr. I shot the first set on the left and the second on the right instead of sequentially left to right. This makes it harder to photograph the results but easier to compare. Overall, the results between the two sets were comparable and only had two flyers (on the left side) out of the 100 rounds. I had switched out the brass for once fired brass. I haven’t annealed the brass and this was the first firing in the rifle, so the results may not be what they could be. Perhaps I will anneal this brass after a wash in the ultrasonic bath. I seated the first 50 rounds to the full 2.260" which puts the case right up to the ogive of these bullets. I seated the second set of 50 about 0.002" closer to the ogive, which seemed to make a slight difference in accuracy. The 22.8gr grouped well with the best velocity SD. I also made 50 plinkers with the Hornady 55gr FMJ and 19.5gr ARcomp (which worked well for me in the past) and 24.8gr ARcomp at the max load/ full case capacity. The 19.5 were terrible but enough to hit the metal target and the 24.8 shot with 1” groups and over 3100fps. I have 190 of the 70gr RDF left. Nosler says that A2230 is most accurate, so I picked up a bottle and will try that next. What I don’t use in the AR, I can use in the AK.



I also tried my blue steel upper and the old Barska scope. It's somewhat accurate but enough to hit the metal target. I bought flip down sights to replace the scope but didn't get around to try it because I need the spotting scope to see if it hit paper.

AK VEPR: No load testing, just two sets of established loads. Both shot well so no complaints. Although there's over 500fps published difference between the two loads, there surprisingly wasn't much difference in elevation shift between the two.

It was a day of surprises at the range. It was pretty much full all day long and relatively cool at 72F. I spent Saturday replacing the scope mounts on the 6.5, 300BLK, and AR-15.

6.5 Creedmoor: After discovering the loose ring mounts last time, I Loctite the mounting screws. Apparently, this is a common problem with the T/C rifles. I already knew this but didn’t understand. I’ve been looking for better rings and have been having difficulty making a choice. I decided to try the Nikon A-series but couldn’t get the scope to zero, so I gave up after 16 rounds of the Superformance with the new 140gr Hornady Match bullets. I shot them out of order to try and zero. The 41gr had an amazing 7fps SD, so maybe I’ll focus there next time.

300BLK: I made the load work up based on the Nosler data, but the results were not what I expected. I realized afterwards that the Nosler data is much different than the Hornady and Hodgdon data. For both powder sets, I decided to try and seat them to the recommended depth and ended up with an average 2.203" OAL. This probably caused the discrepancy between past results and today. I decided next time to go back to the full 2.260" OAL.

The LilGun was supersonic. I previously had good results with 10 and 10.5 gr but didn’t have the chrono then. This time, the results started out wide and narrowed to a decent group at 10.7gr with a decent fps SD.

The H110 was subsonic except for the strange result at the end. The 8.0gr had a decent group but didn’t lock the bolt back which is to be expected at 872fps. The 8.5 to 9.5 were too wild to measure and then tightened up with the 10.0gr. For some reason, the velocity jumped from 1073fps with the 9.5gr to 1500fps with the 10.0gr. What’s also weird is that the first five of the 10gr had a 5fps SD and the second five had 36fps SD. These shot in two separate groups which is why I'm able to measure each listed in the table below. Still trying to figure out what happened.



I also made plinking rounds with the left over CFEBLK powder at the max charge of 20.5gr and the surplus 147gr FMJ bullet. I tried to seat to the top of the cannelure, but the loads were slightly compressed which produced varying OAL. I sorted the rounds by length and got an average of 2.138" +/- 0.02". The accuracy was okay, so next time will try 20.0gr and try to get a more consistent OAL... or not.

1911-22: I hit the orange gopher several times at 50 yards. Although the SD is a bit high, the average is a consistent 1066fps. I can practically use it to verify the reliability of the chrono. Some of the rounds still misfired but not as bad as before. I was surprised when I spun the target over, which I’ve never been able to do before. I found out that the reason why is that the bullet lodged into the plastic instead of passing through like the others.

Just get Geiselle mounts and dont worry

Just get Geiselle mounts and dont worry

Except I'd have to sell a kidney...