When I went through the lengthy process of getting an answer on this from the Hilo office (after providing them with three separate rulings by BATFE that the firearm in question was NOT a shotgun) I was first told "If it shoots a shotgun shell, it is a shotgun". I asked them where that legal definition existed in HRS. They gave me no answer. I then asked about a Taurus Judge model revolver chambered for .410 bore shot shells and the .45 Colt cartridge and why, since that shoots shotgun shells, they register it as a pistol when they just told me a definition that means it's clearly a shotgun (and one that's WAY too short!). They then made up a new definition/rule/law: "If it fires shotgun shells exclusively, then it's a shotgun." So if someone modified an .410 shotgun by shortening it and so it would fire .45 Colt cartridges, that firearm would be legal according to the Hawaii County "interpretation" (aka "made up shit") of the law, but it would NOT be legal by BATFE standards since you can't "modify" (make shorter) an ordinary (manufactured as full length) shotgun into a "firearm". I'm sure confronted with this possibility the county would just make up more shit, but at that point I gave up because it's clear they can do and say and make up anything they want to and all we can do is get arrested and go to jail for not following the shit they make up. 

If you want to continue to play games with them, "shotguns" don't only shoot shot shells.

I don't think they would arrest you, because they have no case.  They may confiscate the firearm, in which case you have to sue them to get it back.  Costs money, but it would be a win, they would look like the fool, and they'll be forced to comply with the law as written.

Confiscation without arrest is a likely scenario. I'd love to sue them, but don't have the requisite legal knowledge, nor the funds to hire a specialist attorney, nor have I had any success in finding an attorney to take the case pro bono. As with my inquiries into the Kauai PD illegally issuing their two CCW licenses for terms other than the mandated one year, I also filed an Office of Information Practices (OIP) official request (Hawaii's version of the federal Freedom of Information Act) for all information in the possession of HPD (Hawaii County PD) as well as any and all information held by anyone they consulted with on the issue (they told me at one point they couldn't answer until they consulted County Counsel and/or the Attorney General's office). HPD claimed that everything was "attorney client privileged" and thus they would provide me nothing to allow us to see exactly how they arrived at their (various and changing) "conclusions"/"interpretations" about what the law says where, or how they made up arrived at their opinion without there being anything in the actual law to support it. The Attorney General's office responded similarly saying all that info was "attorney-client privileged".  I then filed appeals through OIP and nothing happened (they ignored the 10 day time limit for responding). When I finally contacted the "aid" at OIP she said there was nothing more they could do, and that the only option to move forward was to file a lawsuit. Good thing all these Democrat bureaucrats and politicians are so enamored of "transparency and accountability"... imagine what things would be like if they weren't!

I really hope that having prime sports and ogc both inquiring with Hpd/AG will help actually get an answer out of them. I am already on the call list and I will be ordering one as soon as the shops get the OK to bring them in.

I really hope that having prime sports and ogc both inquiring with Hpd/AG will help actually get an answer out of them. I am already on the call list and I will be ordering one as soon as the shops get the OK to bring them in.

Yeah, answers would be good. To see the actual discussions that led to those answers would be even better (I want to hear the "Oh shit. What are we going to do? We have to come up with some way to make this illegal." phone messages/calls between the cops and the lawyers...)

In the course of pursuing answers from Hawaii (County) PD I wrote HPD (Honolulu) several times asking them to state their policy, and if the "story" was true that they had registered at least one of these firearms there in the past. Never heard a single word back from them. I thought about filing the OIP paperwork, but since my experiences with Kauai PD and HPD (Hawaii county) were that they just ignore the requests/appeals and/or claim all the information/documents is "attorney-client privileged" that it would yield nothing... maybe I was wrong the they would have provided something useful. One of the "justifications" for the stonewalling lengthy delays (March to November 2016) in the Hawaii county OIP case was that they "needed to make sure that the laws are consistent throughout the state" (I had mentioned that anecdotally HPD had registered such a weapon). They eventually informed me that such "firearms" were "illegal shotguns" and thus had determined that either 1. no such firearm had ever been registered on Oahu, and/or 2. If one was, they were going to still make them illegal in Hawaii county and thus create inconsistency in state law interpretations. I talked to a local (Big Island) BATFE agent would said it was his belief that each county police chief was free to have his own personal interpretation of any and all the laws regarding firearms, and thus each county could lawfully have different interpretations and "rules" about everything, including whether or not said firearm was a shotgun or what constituted "an exceptional case" for issuing a CCW license, etc.

I don't think these people have the slightest interest in either "transparency" nor honesty.

If I ever hit the mega bucks, I'll donate a some cash for an attorney to help get our 2a rights back.

Received an email from Egunner today auctioning off a Mossberg 590 from Hickock45. Note on the website:  ***WE ARE CURRENTLY NOT SHIPPING THIS FIREARM TO TX. OH, CA, NY, NJ, MA, or MD***

No mention of Hawaii... but mainland firearms dealers (and owners and gun bloggers and reporters) often don't have a clue what's going on here. So we are once again part of the elite six states that violate the Second Amendment-guaranteed rights of their citizens with impunity on a daily basis. What I can't figure out is whys the hell is Texas in there? I mean, I know the Republicans are blocking constitutional carry this year, but...  . Same with Ohio, they have pretty good laws otherwise.

http://www.egunner.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=8025493&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EGUNH45042717

"At this time"

Hopefully they hurry up and make a ruling in our favor.

https://mobile.twitter.com/OGCTACTICAL/status/863521045310865408

 We received a shockwave into the store and we're in formed by HPD at this time they are only willing to register it to a law enforcement officer.  Further deliberation is ongoing

We received a shockwave into the store and we're in formed by HPD at this time they are only willing to register it to a law enforcement officer.  Further deliberation is ongoing

Lol. What makes it legal for a LE, yet not for a citizen?  Too much...

Lol. What makes it legal for a LE, yet not for a citizen?  Too much...

In most states with restrictive possession laws law enforcement supports (testifies for) the legislation/laws as long as there is a "carve out" exemption that allows the cops to own the weapons. That's how they roll. The "only ones". Since the stats clearly show that  they commit more crimes than licensed "civilian" carriers it is another example of total bullshit.

We received a shockwave into the store and we're in formed by HPD at this time they are only willing to register it to a law enforcement officer.  Further deliberation is ongoing

They don't want to open a can of worms on NFA AOW to come.

As everyone knows ; AOW's does not require a 5320.20 to cross State lines and certain types are NOT prohibited by name to own  in Hawaii.

Thanks for the update OGC.

I don't get the law enforcement only loophole on this one either. 

Thanks for the update OGC.

I don't get the law enforcement only loophole on this one either. 

There is no "law enforcement only loophole". They're just making shit up.

I could be 100% wrong. I'd write and ask them to cite the HRS statute that is the basis for their assertion, but they never bother to even acknowledge my question, much less answer it.

There is no "law enforcement only loophole". They're just making shit up.

That's probably why I don't get it.

There is no "law enforcement only loophole". They're just making shit up.

I could be 100% wrong. I'd write and ask them to cite the HRS statute that is the basis for their assertion, but they never bother to even acknowledge my question, much less answer it.

Is it not part of the same law that allows them to have more than 10rd mags and tazers and stuff like that?

Is it not part of the same law that allows them to have more than 10rd mags and tazers and stuff like that?

Yeah, you're right, since I guess they will deem this a "short barreled shotgun" (or anything that is illegal for you and I to possess), and the "only ones" are exempted from any limitations via HRS §134-11:  Exemptions to HRS 134-7 to 134-9, including  ... (they can have, and do, whatever they want... I wonder how many legally have a garage full of hand grenades, bombs, dynamite and a cannon or two?):

§134-8  Ownership, etc., of automatic firearms, silencers, etc., prohibited; penalties.  (a)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of any of the following is prohibited:  assault pistols, except as provided by section 134-4(e); automatic firearms; rifles with barrel lengths less than sixteen inches; shotguns with barrel lengths less than eighteen inches; cannons; mufflers, silencers, or devices for deadening or muffling the sound of discharged firearms; hand grenades, dynamite, blasting caps, bombs, or bombshells, or other explosives; or any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof coated with teflon or any other similar coating designed primarily to enhance its capability to penetrate metal or pierce protective armor; and any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof designed or intended to explode or segment upon impact with its target.
     (b)  Any person who installs, removes, or alters a firearm part with the intent to convert the firearm to an automatic firearm shall be deemed to have manufactured an automatic firearm in violation of subsection (a).
     (c)  The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited.  This subsection shall not apply to magazines originally designed to accept more than ten rounds of ammunition which have been modified to accept no more than ten rounds and which are not capable of being readily restored to a capacity of more than ten rounds.
     (d)  Any person violating subsection (a) or (b) shall be guilty of a class C felony and shall be imprisoned for a term of five years without probation.  Any person violating subsection (c) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1989, c 261, §6 and c 263, §4; am L 1992, c 286, §§3, 4]

In an interesting "coincidence" to my post above, David Codrea just posted this article...

http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2017/05/were-only-ones-off-roster-enough.html

We're the Only Ones Off Roster Enough

“In some instances, ATF has discovered officers who purchased more than 100 “off roster” firearms that were subsequently transferred to non-law enforcement individuals,” Harden continued. “Such transactions potentially constitute violations of federal firearms laws, to include dealing firearms without a FFL, and lying on a federal firearms form when purchasing said firearm — also known as “straw purchasing.” [http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvcrime/2017/04/13/atf-warns-growing-trend-illegal-gun-dealing-cops/]

Gee, special privileges lead to a sense of entitlement that the rules don't apply. Who knew?

Mossberg 590 on sale for $390. Won't ship to Texas or Ohio. Did something change here in Hawaii, or is PSA just out of the loop thus far?

Palmetto State Armory (PSA): http://palmettostatearmory.com/mossberg-590-shockwave-12ga-shotgun-50659.html?trk_msg=K72JM5DGPHP4B8BLCUER58ULTS&trk_contact=GL1TQMU3KON6F4J39QEPV9CPJK&trk_sid=T1ILCKQ286CL828EM9QRGIFI80&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fpalmettostatearmory.com%2fmossberg-590-shockwave-12ga-shotgun-50659.html&utm_campaign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=5%3a00+Email



MOSSBERG 590 SHOCKWAVE 12GA SHOTGUN - 50659
1 Review | Add Your Review
IN STOCK

Normally: $434.99

Sale:  $389.99
Qty:1

ADD TO CART
SKU: 52251
UPC: 015813506595
MFR#: 50659
Gauge: 12
Capacity: 6
Action: Pump
Barrel Type: Heavy-Walled
Barrel Length: 14"
Sight: Bead
Choke: Cylinder Bore
Barrel Finish: Matte Blued
Grip: Shockwave Raptor Bird's Head-style Pistol Grip
Weight: 5.25 lbs
Length: 26.37"
Not For Sale for Residents of Texas or Ohio

Probably out of the loop. I tried to order ammo from islandview and their exclusions doesnt list hawaii...guess what, hawaiis a no go

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