Great find Don.

It's a great example for the rest of the world.

Sort of.

I need to read more about this, but so far the carry laws for the Swiss sound a lot like those here in that only those who ~need~ to carry firearms are permitted to do so. Those in active service can, of course, carry their issued firearms but none other. There are a bunch of other laws, too, that would not go over well in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

The example about crime is a good one, but I'm not sure I'd point to the Swiss and a great example of how to handle gun ownership in America. Most of it has to do with the mandatory military service, the ongoing militia responsibilities of the individual and the government subsidies (and therefore control) of the equipment to do so. With no direct parallels in the US culture it would be a tough sell in anything other than light conversation.

I'm not all that read up on it yet, though. Wikipedia is a great place to start... but a horrible place if you go no further.

The other thing is that holding up Switzerland as an example only opens the door for the gun grabbers to talk about Japan, where the Olympic shooting team has to go to South Korea to train, and crime is very low.  It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison, and the grabbers have been doing it for years.  For example, the UK has a lower crime rate than we do, in fact, most countries do.  But that doesn't really mean anything, and we can go back and forth comparing violent crime rates in the US, Switzerland, Japan, New York, Texas, Hawaii, Montana, on and on.  Hawaii will have a low crime rate regardless of gun laws, mostly due to the culture here.  My home state of Montana is quite safe, as well, despite boasting one of the highest rates of firearms saturation in the country.  People here and in Montana have a long tradition of strong family ties and a sense of community. 

Crime rates in different areas with different cultures are totally inconsistent, and leads to circular arguments.  However, the rate of crime in the same places over time, and as gun laws change, is completely consistent, no matter where in the world you look.  The crime rate in US states that loosened their CCW restrictions went down.  The crime rate in the UK, Australia, and Canada shot up after they banned firearms.  Don't be fooled by the Brady Bunch's bullshit when they start running off at the mouth about how much lower the crime rate is in the UK--those people are constantly writing editorials in their news outlets to decry the fact that, by their standards,  they're awash in violence.  Same goes for Canada and Australia.  Different cultures have different crime rates, but freely acquired and carried firearms keep the crime rate low.

If you're interested in this, check out John Lott's study which led to the book "More Guns, Less Crime".

Agreed.  What works for one culture won't necessarily work for others.  When I get home I'll post up an interesting essay I came across that attempts to educate on why gun control works in Japan but not elsewhere.

Agreed.  What works for one culture won't necessarily work for others.  When I get home I'll post up an interesting essay I came across that attempts to educate on why gun control works in Japan but not elsewhere.

I'd be interested  in reading that.  I'm guessing that it's a cultural thing.

The article complete with sources can be located here at http://davekopel.org/2a/LawRev/Japanese_Gun_Control.htm

The author appears to have other essays on similar subject on the site but I admit that I haven't had the chance to review them yet.

Thanks for those posts MantisClaw. I removed the quotes of the actual article so we aren't infringing on copyright issues. Again, thanks for the link.

Long read, but well worth it.  The article pretty much checks with what I've seen and read elsewhere, but I didn't know that Japan was such a totalitarian regime.  One more reason to not like Japan.

Cougar, I wouldn't go as far as to say the UK has a lower crime rate then us. Remember the link that was posted here? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

Crime rate went up 89% while ours dropped. And you really don't here much about Switzerland when it comes to crime. I'm not saying its a utopia everyplace has there bad apples, I'm sure there politics suck ass like ours but you just never hear about Switzerland. oh did anybody catch that part about the government issuing the ammo for that event? I thought the was interesting.

I seen this show on TV the other day called "Freakonomics".. It explained all kinds of interesting things.. It spoke about how Japan's police departments have to reach a certain "quota" when it came to solving murders and other crimes...

To keep that percentage up (good) they throw out murders that they cannot solve...and murderers they can't catch...

I could be wrong but thats what was presented on that documentary..amongst other stuff...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1152822/

"Freakonomics"..

That's a good show, and book.

Cougar, I wouldn't go as far as to say the UK has a lower crime rate then us. Remember the link that was posted here? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

Crime rate went up 89% while ours dropped. And you really don't here much about Switzerland when it comes to crime. I'm not saying its a utopia everyplace has there bad apples, I'm sure there politics suck ass like ours but you just never hear about Switzerland. oh did anybody catch that part about the government issuing the ammo for that event? I thought the was interesting.

Right, their crime rate is up tremendously, but I think it's still a lower per capita rate than ours.  Which doesn't disprove the idea that banning guns increases crime, it just reinforces the point made in the article about Japan that different cultures/countries are either more or less violence-prone than others.  Regardless of the baseline level of crime, it goes up if you ban guns, and down if you relax the restrictions. 

I agree.. 

I seen this show on TV the other day called "Freakonomics".. It explained all kinds of interesting things.. It spoke about how Japan's police departments have to reach a certain "quota" when it came to solving murders and other crimes...

To keep that percentage up (good) they throw out murders that they cannot solve...and murderers they can't catch...

I could be wrong but thats what was presented on that documentary..amongst other stuff...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1152822/

I read some interesting stuff during the Obamacare debate involving the infant mortality rate abroad vs. the rate in the US.  Most of the countries that were held up as shining examples of how socialized medicine would make our medical system better through improved infant mortality rates.  The problem is that Japan, the UK, etc, have stupid definitions of what's actually infant mortality.  In the US, any kid that comes out with a pulse is a live birth, and if the baby dies it contributes to our seemingly horrid infant mortality rate.  Some countries don't consider a baby born more than like three weeks premature to be a live birth, others don't count it if the baby dies within 48 hours of birth, and some don't count it if the birth weight is below a certain number.  In the US, we put another tick in the column no matter what.  Even if the baby was born two months early, drastically underweight, and dies two hours after birth, we count it. 

The other misleading stat they used was things like cancer rates and heart disease rates, which has nothing to do with medicine.  It's sort of like saying that my home town's rinky-dink health clinic (open an entire three days per week) is better at treating gunshot wounds that an Army combat trauma unit because way more people get shot in Iraq than in BFE, Montana.  Or saying that city A has better body shops than city B because there are fewer car accidents in City A.  Sorry for the thread hijack, I just find it fascinating how people twist facts and figures to suit their agenda.  It's good to see some of the dirty tricks people use, because the gun grabbers are the most shameless fact-twisters on the planet.  (Excepting the entire North Korean government, of course)