Hourly fee for range use? (Read 9795 times)

Heavies

Hourly fee for range use?
« on: January 19, 2012, 08:32:23 PM »
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/16560261/2012/01/19/showdown-building-over-plan-for-gun-range-fee

As in many previous discussions here, I am still against any fees leveed on users of the KHSC.
I still stand by my belief that we already pay a ridiculous amount of taxes and this aught to be enough.

Do we need fees at the beach parks too? 

Arggg.

Heavies

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 08:33:43 PM »
There are thousands of gun owners. DEMAND what is right. A Budget FOR THE Range.
Screw the fee!

Funtimes

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 08:46:47 PM »
The range has a budget, but it comes out of general money. They do charge kids to play soccer and other things at some parks. At least at public pools and stuff I went to there have been fee's (like $1.00). I mean honestly, last I looked the city had a 700 mil deficit.  What are some serious resolutions that can help get our range fixed?

My mom used to tell me, when she was really broke, "They can't get blood from a turnip." Meaning, she doesn't have it - so there is nothing for them to take. The news said the park costs $600,000 a year. I would still love to see that break down in a line item sheet, but lets say it does really cost that much. If the director has 200 grand and there are higher priority uses that need the repairs or money, well when the money is gone -- its just gone. There should be a fee, when I am using the park after hours and an attendant is required. This fee would be at the rate of $15.00 a hour. The chair had it right, and I agree with him in this aspect.  That line of thinking comports WELL within the current rules of the city and county parks and recreation regulations.

They could also look at the user fee, the same they charge for use of the bay. It would be worth it to have the park open more hours (if that is what they use it for).  I am however completely against me paying at the range, and it going to pay for the rail.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 08:53:53 PM by Funtimes »
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bass monkey

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 09:21:37 PM »
If all they are saying is true, then it would seem like the best deal ever.  However, he is still working on getting the shooters the "best bang for their buck".  Translation to me, he just saying what needs to be heard in order to get this approved then change of plans.  It would be good if the money stayed at the range and improved the things he listed. 

Heavies

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 09:39:00 PM »
I just can't see it.

 I mean, they bend you over making you jump through a thousand hoops on pointless/redundant permits to aquire, burden you on regulations on barrel length, mag cap limits, vauge rules and regulations that the lay person probably knows nothing about, untill they decide to slap you up as an example of 'ignorance of the law is no excuse.'  Tell you there is provision to CC, but  ever tell you where how what to do to satify some arbitrary standard, therefore never issuing.  Hold you to transport, to here and from there, and no where in between. Cause you to take time from your life, sometimes hours,  fighting for parking, retarded drivers, and utterly fustrating traffic, in the busiest most crowded area on this tiny rock, to comply with these idiotic, money wasting, no benifit registration rules. Hazmat, FFL fees, exuberant shipping/handling cost, taxes.  Then throw you that BS 'price of living in paradise' crap.  It's of their own making, while the rest of us common folk sweat it out in the fields.
When is enough, enough?

You know that if they start charging, that money will go into the abyss, don't you?
The fee will most certainly keep climbing, as with any other tax. Untill only the elite can afford usage. Take a look at Britain.
Only the very very rich can afford to shoot. And a very limited selection of firearms at that.

Be very, very careful of what you wish for....

bass monkey

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2012, 09:55:11 PM »
Ah its all a conspiracy and part of the plan. That's why the guy on kauai got arrested for shooting on his property too, so no one ever tries that again. Hahahhahaa.

Funtimes

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2012, 09:55:41 PM »
Well I think some where in there bro we wen't from the range ;P to every gun law in the state of hawaii lol.

The honest thing is, many places have ranges ran by the government. They charge fee's.  Many parks also do the same thing by charging a 'conservation fee' or something similar. *IF* it goes to the range, its not the end of the world -- and I honestly don't see  it getting crazy like that. Most non-profits charge fees to the run the range.  However, I will never support  a 'tax' that goes to the general fund.

The reality of the situation is: Where would you otherwise get the money?
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s15project

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 12:14:20 AM »
Does anyone know how the Hanauma Bay Fund was established? What would it take to establish a similar fund for the range. All revenue from the range goes to it's own fund for the range.

I haven't been to the range in over a year. Working six days a week and with the range hours so short I just can't make it. I can't wait 3 hours for a bench on a Sunday because people camp out and are not active shooters. When that is the only day that I have to do everything I didn't do the rest of the week it's not worth it. I would gladly pay an hourly fee that supported the range only and directly. And most important it cycled the benches.  Max 2 hours on a bench then 1 hour off or something similar.

Funtimes

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 12:47:27 AM »
I think the council just needs to vote on a "special fund" creation. I'm also going to try and apply for a permit for exclusive use of one of the benches lol.
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Heavies

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 03:35:34 AM »
Quote
Up to 7,000 people use the range annually.  (from HNN ariticle)

Where are they getting these numbers from??  ???    Like the other numbers, sounds off to me.  I guess it is SOP to pull numbers from the arse, makes it sound as if there is no real problem going on @ KHSC...

Teichi

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2012, 06:03:36 AM »
Quote
Up to 7,000 people use the range annually.  (from HNN ariticle)

Where are they getting these numbers from??  ???    Like the other numbers, sounds off to me.  I guess it is SOP to pull numbers from the arse, makes it sound as if there is no real problem going on @ KHSC...

Koko Head is only open 21 hours a week (minus out the Holidays and other occassions that it's closed).
I don't think they are counting HPD, Sherriff and other law enforcement departmentsTrap, Skeet and Silhouette are only open on the weekends may be counted as private club use.

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Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 08:32:04 AM »
If this is anyindi ation of the way the city works look at the drag strip
Problem. The outer islands all have one. Only Honolulu don't.
Political Correctness is FOS
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BananaClip

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 08:40:35 AM »
Like anything else.. The City has money but they just want more...
 When we fight and send letter after letter to speak up, it sparks greed.."Eh we can make money!" :oops:

Shoots! Didn't car registartion just go up!? >:(

I'm still hitting the same pot hole everyday for the past month..well I'm avoiding it after the first hit but it sounds better when I say I hit it..  ;D

I'm waiting for the bandaid patch... :-\
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Funtimes

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 11:23:52 AM »
I honestly don't know where you think the city has money, they are running a HUGE deficit now... in the hundreds of millions.
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BananaClip

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 04:49:19 PM »
I honestly don't know where you think the city has money, they are running a HUGE deficit now... in the hundreds of millions.
:rofl: I'm sorry, I had a "I wanna hear my self talk" moment... :rofl:
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Heavies

Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2012, 03:18:40 AM »
Attached are the two Council Bills that are going to be discussed.  Also the comment of a retired Judge, Gun enthusiast, and 2A supporter, Judge Choy...

Quote
These two bills benefit the Kokohead shooters. It addresses the $15 per hour event fee now being imposed on all organizations.One bill says the fee only applies if the event is not being held during normal park hours. The second bill exempts 501(c)(3) non-profit organizations from the $15 per hour fee.

It appears parks dir. Cabato's impostion of the $15 hourly fee has stirred up a hornets nest of protest. Considering the many organizations that use the City's 288 parks island wide. The senior citizen and youth sports groups must be up in arms.

The firearms community should support this. We should all send emails to all of the city council members supporting these two bills and objecting to all fees.

And keep in mind the proposed $7 per hour individual user fee for Kokohead is in the works as well.

As a shooter at the Kokohead Shooting complex I am sure you are aware that a number of proposals are in the works.

$3 to $7 per hour individual user fee at the Kokohead range 
  • Current $15 per hour organization event fee at all parks (all matches and club events)
  • City bill 1-2012 seeking to exempt non-profit 501(c)(3) organizations for the $15  per hour fee
  • City bill 60-2011 seeks to have the $15 per hour organization fee apply only to events that do not take place during normal park hours.

Numbered items 1 and 2 are detrimental to Kokohead shooters and should be opposed.

The notion that range user fees will be used to improve the range is naive. Doubtful the city will dedicate/ear mark these funds or place them in a trust fund. And even if they did they could sweep the monies into the general fund during a budget crisis. This has historically happen. On the state level the ear marked Hurricane fund was swept into the general fund to balance the budget.

Each of us pay property tax even when you are renting. Portions of this tax is suppose to go to Kokohead. If we start paying a fee,  that part of our property tax will go to the other parks. Essentially Kokohead shooters  will be singled out to pay for their own range while all the other park users will not. If the city wants to have all park users help, this individual fee proposal should apply to all parks including Waikiki, Ala Moana beach parks and all of the other 288 park facility island wide. Kokohead should not be one of the few parks subject to fees. (Hanauma Bay and Foster Botanical Garden are two City sites with a fee)

Gun guys should not be the city parks dept. ATM when ever they need more funding.

Below is the contact info for city council members. You can email your opposition to all Kokohead fees. Email council member in your district and cc all the others. In the subject write  "Opposing parks and shooting range fees".

Even if some council members maybe anti-gun a lot of opposing emails will give them second thoughts and could have them back off. Email email. Numbers count.
 Darryl

Contact info for the City Council can be found here...


It is up to you if you feel that an individual user fee is warranted.  I, for one, have come to the same conclusion as the Honorable Judge...  Individual fees are not a good idea, and this will open the door for even more abuse of our shooting community.


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2aHawaii

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Re: Hourly fee for range use?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2012, 04:42:14 AM »
I noticed another glaring difference between the two bills. The first one states outside normal operating hours, while the second doesn't mention any times.
I am not a lawyer.

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