Reloading 300 blackout and x39... (Read 7625 times)

rklapp

Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« on: February 04, 2017, 01:45:13 PM »
I have the 300 AAC cases, now I need powder and bullets. I have the powders but of course none that are listed in the Hornady manual. Could you recommend I try any of these? Reloader 15, AR Comp, CFE223, H335, IMR 4895, 700x, Some Win748 and a small amount of Varget.

The Lee x39 has ball expanders for .308 and .311. I've read that domestic AK47 have .308 and overseas have .310 and the Hornady manual has data for both. I've not been able to figure out what my Molot VEPR rifle is. The manual says 7.62 mm which converts to .3 inches. I tried boring the rifle with a lead ball but didn't work despite several Youtube videos. I've had good success with the Tulammo and American Eagle, both measures at .308. What do you suggest?
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macsak

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 02:11:09 PM »
I have the 300 AAC cases, now I need powder and bullets. I have the powders but of course none that are listed in the Hornady manual. Could you recommend I try any of these? Reloader 15, AR Comp, CFE223, H335, IMR 4895, 700x, Some Win748 and a small amount of Varget.

The Lee x39 has ball expanders for .308 and .311. I've read that domestic AK47 have .308 and overseas have .310 and the Hornady manual has data for both. I've not been able to figure out what my Molot VEPR rifle is. The manual says 7.62 mm which converts to .3 inches. I tried boring the rifle with a lead ball but didn't work despite several Youtube videos. I've had good success with the Tulammo and American Eagle, both measures at .308. What do you suggest?

1680 is the reference powder used by AAC when developing the round
second best choice is 4227
we have also used H110 and magnum pistol powders (lil gun, and one other i cannot remember)
but 1680 and 4227 are by far the best

rklapp

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 03:06:26 PM »
The photo I attached above was for x39 and attached is 300 AAC. I see that 1680 is on both charts. I know that WGS has 1680 but not at SEC. I guess it's time for another trip to WGS. My powder shelf keeps growing faster than I can shoot it. I'm not sure if that's a good problem to have or not now that we're living in Trump's country.
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Inspector

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Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 03:28:24 PM »
I have the 300 AAC cases, now I need powder and bullets. I have the powders but of course none that are listed in the Hornady manual. Could you recommend I try any of these? Reloader 15, AR Comp, CFE223, H335, IMR 4895, 700x, Some Win748 and a small amount of Varget.
The 300 BLK cartridge case is very small. I am sure you noticed LOL Becuase of that you have to use magnum pistol powders in order to obtain the pressures necessary to get the velocities needed. So none of your rifle powders will work. Your rifle powders don't burn fast enough. All of the powders Mac mentioned are great powders. I use H110 and W296 with excellent results.

Have you decided if you are going to load subsonic or supersonic or both? I found I get better accuracy and better reliability with supersonic loads. If you are going to load supersonic I can recommend Sierra 125gr and 135gr bullets as well as Speer 130gr Hot Cor bullets.
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rklapp

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 06:19:13 PM »
The 300 BLK cartridge case is very small. I am sure you noticed LOL Becuase of that you have to use magnum pistol powders in order to obtain the pressures necessary to get the velocities needed. So none of your rifle powders will work. Your rifle powders don't burn fast enough. All of the powders Mac mentioned are great powders. I use H110 and W296 with excellent results.

Have you decided if you are going to load subsonic or supersonic or both? I found I get better accuracy and better reliability with supersonic loads. If you are going to load supersonic I can recommend Sierra 125gr and 135gr bullets as well as Speer 130gr Hot Cor bullets.

What about the slow burning 700x? I've read of people using about 6.5 gn with 180 gn bullet.
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Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2017, 07:16:56 PM »
What about the slow burning 700x? I've read of people using about 6.5 gn with 180 gn bullet.
Are you loading for a single shot or bolt action rifle? It might work but is it worth the risk to save a few bucks? I still would not use 700-X. If you are loading for an AR it won't work. The 700-X burns way too fast. If you are loading for an AR you need a powder that burns in the range of the powders mentioned. Which is much slower than 700-X and much faster than the rifle powders you have. You should study the burn rate chart to learn which powders are similar if you don't like the powders that have been recommended to you here.

Using the powders with the correct burn rate for the cartridge/bullet/platform is smart and safe reloading. Trying to save a buck and trusting load data from people on the Internet is not something I would do. JMHO.  :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
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whynow?

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2017, 09:17:40 PM »
I used H110 with no issues and have also heard W296 is good for 300 blkout.  Used Sierra 125 gr. 
 A good place with knowledge about 300 blkout is Prime Sports HI on Nimitz.   

dogman

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 09:32:31 PM »
H110 and W296 are the same powder. I use W296 with magnum primers, 220 grain Berry's bullets, subsonic.

rklapp

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 10:56:36 PM »
You should study the burn rate chart to learn which powders are similar if you don't like the powders that have been recommended to you here.

I've seen the burn rate chart that lists them in order but haven't seen one that is specific for 300 BLK nor any other caliber. I guess I'm missing something. It's not that I don't like the powders, it's that I don't want to waste powder. I'll probably end up buying a bottle of 1680 from WGS.

Separate question, I tried the 700x in my MN using the load data in the cast bullet manual. It hit paper but wasn't accurate. I think it might be because I need to use a filler. Where do I get kapok or could I use TP or polyfill. I've seen a video where the polyfill started to gum up the barrel but thought I'd ask since I have a bag of it in the garage.

Also, does anyone have an answer to my x39 question? Mahalo.
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TooFewPews

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2017, 11:03:37 PM »
For super loads, I use Lil Gun.

For Subs, I've used 4198. I'm almost out of my 1lb bottle, but I was planning on switching to 1680 after my 4198 is done.

With a 16" barrel and a pistol gas system, I could get the subs to cycle with Lil Gun. For my 16" barrel and carbine gas, I couldn't get Lil Gun to cycle.

All are shot out of an AR.

Let me know if you want to trade some of your 223 powder for Lil Gun.

macsak

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2017, 11:06:54 PM »

With a 16" barrel and a pistol gas system, I could get the subs to cycle with Lil Gun. For my 16" barrel and carbine gas, I couldn't get Lil Gun to cycle.


yeah, i agree on this point
the carbine gas system is more difficult to load for with subs

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Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2017, 06:13:20 AM »
I've seen the burn rate chart that lists them in order but haven't seen one that is specific for 300 BLK nor any other caliber. I guess I'm missing something. It's not that I don't like the powders, it's that I don't want to waste powder. I'll probably end up buying a bottle of 1680 from WGS.

Separate question, I tried the 700x in my MN using the load data in the cast bullet manual. It hit paper but wasn't accurate. I think it might be because I need to use a filler. Where do I get kapok or could I use TP or polyfill. I've seen a video where the polyfill started to gum up the barrel but thought I'd ask since I have a bag of it in the garage.

Also, does anyone have an answer to my x39 question? Mahalo.
There is no powder that is specific for 300 BLK or any other caliber. This is why you reload and test. However, there is a range of burn speed that is specific to the platform/cartridge/bullet you are using. For instance, generally speaking in rifle powders you would use faster burning powders for lighter bullets and slower burning powders for heavier bullets. Then there are the magnum cartridges which use an even slower burning powder. I would say generally speaking IMR4198 is probably the cut off between slower rifle powders and faster burning pistol powders. The same general rule of thumb also applies to pistol powders. The slower pistol powders are used for magnum cartridges for a magnum load. If you use a faster burning powder you won't push the bullet up to magnum speeds. And then you get into the shotgun powders which are the fastest burning of the powders. The line is too blurred between pistol and shotgun powders so I won't even try to say where that line is.

With that said Hodgdon just started marketing a powder specifically for 300 BLK. Of course it is in the same burn rate as the powders we listed above. Technically speaking it is not specifically designed for 300 BLK as it can also be used in magnum pistol cartridges as well. It is just a marketing tool. I  will bet they sell a ton of it at a higher price than the bottle of whatever powder with almost the exact same burn rate.

Then there are powder uses outside the general norm. Like the 300 BLK. Because the developers of this carriage were trying to recreate the velocities of the 7.62x39 cartridge they had to use a little faster burning powder than the traditional rifle powder. Which is why magnum pistol powders are used. Which is also why you don't want to use a powder too far outside the general burn speeds that the cartridge/bullet/platform was designed for.

To continue with uses outside the norm you found by reading the Internet that shooting a single shot/bolt action rifle opens up a world of different choices for reduced loads. People found that a very small amount of fast burning pistol/shotgun powder in a big rifle cartridge gives you a slow moving bullet capable of ringing a gong or grouping decently at 50-100 yards. But this same misuse of powder does not work with a semi auto which is designed to be used with a cartridge that develops a specific range of pressure. Let me just say that the misuse of powder in any application has risks.

In order to ring out maximum accuracy out of any rifle you need to use the correct bullet for your particular rifle (not the bullet designed for your rifle). Like with a MN having such a variety of different bore diameters that you need to find out what your bore diameter is and use the correct bullet for your specific rifle in order to get the accuracy these rifle are capable of. This also means using the right powder for the bullet that works. That is why I always suggest using only published powders in the amounts listed. I found the listed most accurate loads are sometimes absolutely correct in my guns. That is why they list them. Using loads from anonymous people from the Internet has risks as well. I would suggest you stick to published data until you find the best bullet/load for your gun and then experiment with using the incorrect powder for light loads and economy.
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macsak

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2017, 07:32:15 AM »
With that said Hodgdon just started marketing a powder specifically for 300 BLK. Of course it is in the same burn rate as the powders we listed above. Technically speaking it is not specifically designed for 300 BLK as it can also be used in magnum pistol cartridges as well. It is just a marketing tool. I  will bet they sell a ton of it at a higher price than the bottle of whatever powder with almost the exact same burn rate.

http://armsvault.com/2016/11/hodgdon-cfe-blk-powder-300-aac-blackout-cartridge/

rklapp

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2017, 08:43:22 AM »
Johnny likes the new powder.

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Pit808

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2017, 09:58:37 PM »
For supersonic 300blk: Hogdon Lil gun / 4227 / H110.  I never tried H110, but Lil gun gave the most velocity over 4227.

For subsonic 300blk: a pistol gas barrel and 1680 will make life easy.  I have a pistol gas barrel and couldn't get 4227 to cycle subsonic reliably without going supersonic YMMV.  :shaka:
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Kalen

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2017, 10:01:39 PM »
I've been also tinkering around with a few 300 AAC BLK loads with different grain bullets. However, I've stuck with H110 and Lil'gun. I've found that bullets with canneleurs are a pain in the ass to achieve a consistent C.O.A.L +/- 0.008 mainly because the canneleur is normally a smaller diameter than the bullet circumference. (maybe it's just my press setup, meh)
 
However, I've been using Sierra 125gr SPT bullets at 2.000" with 16.5 grains of Lil'gun (roughly 2100 vel). This is also being shot out of my 16" carbine length gas system, 1:8.5 barrel. Get yourself a Sheridan Case gauge it will save you a lot of trouble. I also notice that if you over crimp .308/9 Diameter bullets it will cause the round to chamber improperly. You can find a nice amount of published 300 BLK data from https://sierrabullets.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/300-aac-blackout.pdf  :shaka:

   

rklapp

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2017, 08:30:53 PM »
You can find a nice amount of published 300 BLK data from https://sierrabullets.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/300-aac-blackout.pdf  :shaka:
Thanks for the tips. It's interesting that everyone says H110 and 296 are the same powders but I guess not exactly just very, very close.
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macsak

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2017, 09:17:46 PM »
Thanks for the tips. It's interesting that everyone says H110 and 296 are the same powders but I guess not exactly just very, very close.

are you using new brass or converted brass?
be sure that you choose your cases to convert carefully
certain brands of brass are too thick in the walls, resulting in rounds getting stuck in the chamber
pm me if you need more details

Kalen

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2017, 02:24:13 PM »
Thanks for the tips. It's interesting that everyone says H110 and 296 are the same powders but I guess not exactly just very, very close.

Don't forget that these loads are published for the effective case length mentioned on the first page of the sierra published data. It has to do with how much brass is actually touching the bullet and the COAL. It must be exactly the same as prescribed to push those loads at that velocity.

 :shaka:

rklapp

Re: Reloading 300 blackout and x39...
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2017, 09:08:25 PM »
WGS gave me a deal on Hornady 300 brass because the price dropped significantly. I guess that's what happens when we start buying something regularly.
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