Check trump out, hope it's true........ (Read 8347 times)

London808

Check trump out, hope it's true........
« on: February 25, 2017, 07:00:34 PM »
Proposed Proposed Executive Order Designating Certain Rifles for milita use.
 Trump Executive Order

The faulty Fourth Circuit decision issued last week upholding Maryland’s Scary Gun Ban runs afoul of good jurisprudence. The ruling found that Second Amendment protections don’t extend to individuals who wish to own certain semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15, calling them, “weapons that are most useful in military service.” However, a document sent to me yesterday offers hope of correcting that in the form of a proposed executive order to be issued by President Trump.

Virginia attorney Lenden Eakin sent me the text of the proposed order and gave permission to share it. I’d like run it past the Armed Intelligentsia here at TTAG to get your take.

The simple mechanism of attorney Eakin’s proposal: by defining certain categories of rifles for militia use, the President could strike state and local bans on many of the most popular “assault rifles” and their magazines.

Mr. Eakin also notes: “An Executive Order like this could have a significant impact on the litigation to challenge Assault Weapons Bans currently making its way through the Courts. It would help the challengers.”

UPDATE:  I neglected to note in the original story how this is meant to serve as a stop-gap measure.  Ideally, only until a more permanent remedy could be achieved.  Or alternatively, until the Supreme Court, with one or more President Trump appointees, could reverse that Fourth Circuit ruling and strike scary gun bans on the whole.

 

EXECUTIVE ORDER

– – – – – – –

DESIGNATION OF MILITIA RIFLES

By the authority vested in me as President and Commander in Chief of the Militia by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to ensure the ability of citizens of the United States to defend themselves, their communities and their States, as well as to ensure the safety and security of our Nation, I hereby order as follows:

Section 1.  Purpose. Both individual and community safety are critically important to the national security of the United States. Terrorism, transnational criminal activity and potential acts of war by foreign nations present a significant threat to national security and our citizens, who have the right and the duty to defend themselves, their communities, their States and the Nation.

Section 2.  Policy.  It is the policy of the executive branch to:

(a)  Support and defend the Constitution, including the Second Amendment right of citizens to keep and bear arms for Militia purposes,as well asself-defense.

(b)  Encourage citizens to be prepared to act as members of the Militia to defend communities, States and the Nation, as part of the common defense contemplated by the Constitution of the United States.

(c)  Discourage restrictions by States and political subdivisionson individual possession of firearms suitable for Militia purposes by citizens of the United States.Executive Order Designating Certain Rifles for ‘Militia Purposes

Section 3.  Definitions.

(a)  “Militia” has the meaning given the term in Title 10, Section 311 of the United States Code to include the Unorganized Militia, as well as the meaning given to the term “Militia” under equivalent State statutes.

(b)  “Self-Defense” shall mean the actions of citizens to defend themselves and their families from physical attack.

(c)  “Communities” shall mean neighborhoods, towns, cities, counties and other political subdivisions of citizens who live in distinct geographic areas within a State.

(d)  “State” shall mean one of the fifty States of the United States.

(e)  “Militia Purposes” shall mean training, practice and preparedness which could improve the ability of a citizen to act,and to be armed in case of a need to act, as a current or future member of a local, State or National organization commanded by government officials and responsive to a physical threat.  Appropriate organizations include those commanded by an elected county or city Sheriff; those commanded by the Governor of a State through officers of that State’s  Defense Force as authorized by Title 30, Section 109 of the United States Code, or through officers of that State’s National Guard;and organizations commanded by the President through officers of the Active or Reserve components of U.S. Armed Forces.

(f)  “Militia Rifles” shall mean the firearms designated in Section 4 that are made in America and suitable for use in self-defense, community defense, defense of States and defense of the Nation.

Section 4.  Designation of Militia Rifles.  That the following firearms and accessories are authorized and appropriate for individual citizens to keep and bear for Militia purposes under the Constitution and the laws of the United States:

(a)  The AR-15 and similar semi-automatic rifles, to include flash suppressors and bayonet lugs, magazines of up to thirty round capacities, M-7  bayonets, and ammunition in 5.56 NATO or .223 Remington, in all quantities.

(b)  The M1A and similar semi-automatic rifles, to include flash suppressors and bayonet lugs,magazines of up to twenty round capacities, M-6 bayonets, and ammunition in 7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester, in all quantities.

(c)  The M1 Garand and similar semi-automatic rifles, to include flash suppressors and bayonet lugs, M-5 bayonets, and ammunition in.30-’06 Springfield, in all quantities.

(d)  Bolt action rifles in the calibers of .30-’06 Springfield; 7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester; 5.56 NATO or .223 Remington; or any substantially equivalent caliber, and ammunition appropriate for the rifles, in any quantity.

(This list could be expanded or replaced by a broad definition)

Section 5.  Pre-emption.  This Executive Order is intended to pre-empt the laws of States or political subdivisions that infringe upon the rights of citizens to keep and bear the arms designated in Section 4.

Section 6.  Judicial Notice.  That the judges of all State and Federal Courts are hereby given notice that possession of the designated Militia Rifles and accessories by citizens should not be restricted or infringed upon by State laws or the laws of a political subdivision of a State and any such law should be reviewed under the strict scrutiny standard to determine whether it is a violation of the Constitution of the United States after judicial consideration of this Order and the fact that it was issued by the Commander in Chief of the Militia.

Donald J. Trump

THE WHITE HOUSE

March __, 2017

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/02/john-boch/proposed-executive-order-designating-rifles-militia-purposes/
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

whynow?

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2017, 09:45:58 PM »
Is this EO Trump's idea or just the atty. proposing this?   I also hope this is true and an interesting way to stop any AWB.   Protecting the 2A was one of his campaign promises and to me he is intent on keeping his promises.

punaperson

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 06:13:32 AM »
Is this EO Trump's idea or just the atty. proposing this?   I also hope this is true and an interesting way to stop any AWB.   Protecting the 2A was one of his campaign promises and to me he is intent on keeping his promises.
From the article quoted above: "The simple mechanism of attorney Eakin’s proposal:..."

Trump spoke at CPAC Friday and made no mention of any Second Amendment related proposals in the works in the near future, and likely doesn't even know about the above attorney's draft EO.

Pretty sure Trump has a LOT of other priorities for his first 100 days, and following, that are higher priority than the Second Amendment issues, you know, like trying to get some serious help for veterans that aren't receiving adequate care. And obviously economic and immigration issues, etc. I'm fairly certain that we will see something eventually, and I'm also fairly certain that there is a group of people (already announced) working on exactly how to do exactly what and when. I'm not sure that Hawaii residents will see any meaningful relief unless and until 1. a beneficial SCOTUS decision comes down or 2. national federal legislation passes, such as "national reciprocity" which includes wording making non-resident licenses valid in one's state of residence.

davgdavg

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 05:42:12 PM »
Why omit all the 7.62 AR (and other calibers for that)? Seems like a pretty big oversight.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 06:16:57 PM »
Why omit all the 7.62 AR (and other calibers for that)? Seems like a pretty big oversight.

Quote
(a)  The AR-15 and similar semi-automatic rifles, to include flash suppressors and bayonet lugs, magazines of up to thirty round capacities, M-7  bayonets, and ammunition in 5.56 NATO or .223 Remington, in all quantities.

That's a REALLY long list!  I'm okay with the most common and plentiful two types -- for now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AR_platform_calibers
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

London808

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 07:16:07 PM »
Why omit all the 7.62 AR (and other calibers for that)? Seems like a pretty big oversight.


"(This list could be expanded or replaced by a broad definition)"
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

passivekinetic

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 09:07:28 PM »
I don't see why there is a reason to specify a 30 round mag limit. Weird.
"The sheep fear sheepdogs, because they fail to see the wolves."
- Anonymous

London808

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 09:20:23 PM »
I don't see why there is a reason to specify a 30 round mag limit. Weird.

I this k its to make clear that 30 round magazines are needed for militia dutys
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

drck1000

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2017, 07:13:02 AM »
Quote
Section 6.  Judicial Notice.  That the judges of all State and Federal Courts are hereby given notice that possession of the designated Militia Rifles and accessories by citizens should not be restricted or infringed upon by State laws or the laws of a political subdivision of a State and any such law should be reviewed under the strict scrutiny standard to determine whether it is a violation of the Constitution of the United States after judicial consideration of this Order and the fact that it was issued by the Commander in Chief of the Militia.
IF this is true, anyone wanna bet that CA, OR, or WA will challenge?  Or at least try to infringe in their own "Feinsteinian" way?

Heavies

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 09:46:28 AM »
The RIGHT of the PEOPLE



Not the militia, not the state, not the government....

THE PEOPLE

davgdavg

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2017, 01:54:18 PM »
That's a REALLY long list!  I'm okay with the most common and plentiful two types -- for now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AR_platform_calibers

You realize that .223 and 5.56 are basically the same round, just with slightly different pressures? 7.62/.308 isn't exactly an uncommon round.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 02:03:07 PM »
You realize that .223 and 5.56 are basically the same round, just with slightly different pressures? 7.62/.308 isn't exactly an uncommon round.

No one seems to be trying to ban the AR10, and with the popularity and number of AR-15's owned, that is the platform being targeted by anti-gun supporters. 

This looks like a measure to protect the AR-15 from being banned.  If they go after any other popular platforms, those can, and should, be added later.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2017, 03:31:11 PM »
The RIGHT of the PEOPLE

Not the militia, not the state, not the government....

THE PEOPLE
Unfortunately Volokh is one of those serious "compromisers" that uses various legal "fine points" to claim that all kinds of various infringements are "reasonable", and thus "constitutional" (in the video he says only that "severe restrictions" would be illegal... so "non-severe" restrictions (whatever those are) may be legal...and he has argued that "assault weapon" bans and standard capacity magazine bans, etc. are constitutional non-infringements). For example, he fallaciously compares "narrow and reasonable regulations" of speech to those upon firearms and arms in general. The obvious difference being that with speech you must FIRST commit a crime using speech in order to be arrested and (or civilly) prosecuted, whereas with arms "regulations" you are prohibited from actually acquiring them or using (e.g. bearing) them PRIOR to any act that harms anyone. This is known as "prior restraint" and is considered unconstitutional regarding the other rights in the bill of rights. For example, one need not acquire a government permission slip to write an article, buy a newspaper, or practice one's religion. David Codrea has a short article on this matter, You CAN Yell "Fire!" in a Crowded Theater (https://web.archive.org/web/20010414064844/http://keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1657). And as Volokh himself admits, he was long an advocate of the right to keep and bear arms only applying to the "militia", even though the damn amendment SAYS "the right of the people"! Lawyers!

changemyoil66

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2017, 10:51:04 PM »
The constitution can say "owning an AR15 is a right" and anti 2a law makers would find a way to still try and ban them saying, thats not what it meant.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

83rdrecon

Re: Check trump out, hope it's true........
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2017, 11:48:18 AM »
People in America need to decide what they want.   Either they want the 10th amendment or they want the supremacy clause in the 14th.  The two are mutually exclusive as written at the moment.....